View source for How it is possible to make a candala a Vaisnava? - No, that is possible. Prabhavisnave namah. Visnu is so powerful, omnipotent. He can do that. So only by Visnu mantra, by becoming a Vaisnava, one can transcend all this restriction, sociology

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{{terms|"How it is possible to make a caṇḍāla a Vaiṣṇava"|"No. That is possible. Prabhaviṣṇave namaḥ. Viṣṇu is so powerful, omnipotent, He can do that. So only by Viṣṇu mantra, by becoming a Vaiṣṇava, one can transcend all these restrictions, sociology"}}
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{{compiler|Krsnadas|Labangalatika}}
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{{last|16Jun12}}
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[[Category:How is it Possible|How is is possible to make]]
[[Category:God's Making‎|How is is possible to make]]
[[Category:God Can Make a Candala Into a Devotee of God|How is is possible to make]]
[[Category:Vaisnava - Devotees of God|How is is possible to make]]
[[Category:that Is|How is is possible to make]]
[[Category:possible|How is is possible to make]]
[[Category:God Is Powerful‎|How is is possible to make]]
[[Category:God Is Lord Visnu|How is is possible to make]]
[[Category:God Is Omnipotent‎|How is is possible to make]]
[[Category:He Can|How is is possible to make]]
[[Category:Can Do That|How is is possible to make]]
[[Category:God's Doing‎|How is is possible to make]]
[[Category:Only By|How is is possible to make]]
[[Category:Visnu Mantra|How is is possible to make]]
[[Category:Becoming a Devotee of God|How is is possible to make]]
[[Category:One Can|How is is possible to make]]
[[Category:Devotees of God Are Transcendental‎|How is is possible to make]]
[[Category:Only By Becoming Devotees of God Can One Transcend All this Restriction, Sociology|How is is possible to make]]
[[Category:Sociology|How is is possible to make]]
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<div id="Lectures" class="section" sec_index="4" parent="compilation" text="Lectures"><h2>Lectures</h2>
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<div id="Bhagavad-gita_As_It_Is_Lectures" class="sub_section" sec_index="0" parent="Lectures" text="Bhagavad-gita As It Is Lectures"><h3>Bhagavad-gita As It Is Lectures</h3>
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<div id="LectureonBG140LondonJuly281973_0" class="quote" parent="Bhagavad-gita_As_It_Is_Lectures" book="Lec" index="24" link="Lecture on BG 1.40 -- London, July 28, 1973" link_text="Lecture on BG 1.40 -- London, July 28, 1973">
<div class="heading">Viṣṇu is so powerful, omnipotent. He can do that. So only by Viṣṇu mantra, by becoming a Vaiṣṇava, one can transcend all this restriction, sociology. They can be. That is confirmed by Kṛṣṇa.
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<span class="link">[[Vanisource:Lecture on BG 1.40 -- London, July 28, 1973|Lecture on BG 1.40 -- London, July 28, 1973]]: </span><div class="text"><p style="display: inline;">Pradyumna:</p>
:adharmābhibhavāt kṛṣṇa
:praduṣyanti kula-striyaḥ
:strīṣu duṣṭāsu vārṣṇeya
:jāyate varṇa-saṅkaraḥ
:([[Vanisource:BG 1.40 (1972)|BG 1.40]])
<p>"When irreligion is prominent in the family, O Kṛṣṇa, the women of the family become corrupt, and from the degradation of womanhood, O descendant of Vṛṣṇi, comes unwanted progeny."</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: This is very important point. For good population. Without good population in the society, gentlemen, cultured, educated, following the rules and regulations of religious principles, how you can expect peace and prosperity? That is not possible. So the whole Vedic system was meant for having very good population. Not such kind of population who are addicted to killing and drinking and so many other sinful activities. No. Then you cannot check. If such population is there, then everything will be polluted. Especially nowadays, because there is want of good population, and they go in the government, and how you can expect good government, good administration? The whole population is polluted. Therefore even such a great state, U.S.A., the president is being tried and he's being criticized.</p>
<p>So there must be good population. So to have good population, the women should be very chaste. That is the basic principle of Vedic civilization. And to keep the women chaste, it was the function of the responsible father, or, in the absence of father, the elder brother... So he must get the woman, the girl, married. It is compulsory. There was no compulsory for man to marry. Because a man may remain brahmacārī. By training, he can abstain from sex. But if woman is not protected very strictly, it is very difficult. It is very difficult. We are discussing śāstra. Don't think otherwise. Cāṇakya Paṇḍita says: viśvāsaṁ naiva kartavyaṁ strīṣu rāja-kuleṣu ca. Viśvāsaṁ naiva kartavyam. "Don't trust women." Viśvāsaṁ naiva kartavyaṁ strīṣu. Strīṣu means women. Rāja-kula... And politicians. Yes. Viśvāsaṁ naiva kartavyaṁ strīṣu rāja-kuleṣu ca. Never the trust the politician and woman. Of course, when woman comes to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, that position is different. We are speaking of ordinary woman. Because Kṛṣṇa says, in another place, striyo vaiśyas tathā śūdraḥ ([[Vanisource:BG 9.32 (1972)|BG 9.32]]). They are considered, women, vaiśya, the mercantile community, and śūdra, and the worker class, they are less intelligent. Pāpa-yoni. When the progeny is defective, then they become less intelligent. So Kṛṣṇa says:</p>
:māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya
:ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ
:striyo vaiśyas tathā śūdras
:te 'pi yānti paraṁ gatiḥ
:([[Vanisource:BG 9.32 (1972)|BG 9.32]])
<p>Even pāpa-yoni, degraded birth, even women, śūdra and vaiśya, they also can become fully Kṛṣṇa conscious by training. And they can also go back to home, back to Godhead, without any check.</p>
<p>So when we study things from material point of view, these things are to be taken care. But when a man or woman becomes Kṛṣṇa conscious, he or she takes care of herself or himself. So it is spoken... Arjuna is speaking of ordinary woman. Strīṣu duṣṭāsu. Just like adharma-abhibhava. Adharma. If the woman is trained, a girl is trained from the very beginning that: "You should remain chaste," that is dharma. It is called Satītā dharma. Satī means chastity. There are many stories of Satī, chaste woman. Nala-damayantī. His husband became so poverty-stricken. He was king, but he became later on so poverty-stricken that he had no sufficient cloth. The husband and wife was putting on the same cloth, half and half. So still, still there was no divorce. You see. Still the woman did not consider... She was also king's daughter. But the husband has fallen down to so much poverty-stricken condition. "So why shall I live with him?" These are some of the extreme examples of chastity. Not to speak of olden days, I have seen in Bombay, in 1935 or '34, on the roadside, there was a beggar. The beggar, the face was defaced. Might be some accident. His eyes and everything became defaced. He could not see, everything became useless. So he, he was sitting on the roadside, and his wife also, also sitting. But I saw that beggar was neat and clean. The wife was also neat and clean. The wife's business was that to keep the husband always neat and clean and fresh and bring him there and again take him at home. Young woman. So I could understand that the wife is so chaste. She has not left such ugly husband. Because his face was defaced. And helping him. Because they require some money. So we have seen.</p>
<p>There are many stories of chaste woman. Many stories. There was one disciple of Rāmānujācārya, a very poor. So Rāmānujācārya came in that poor disciple's house and he saw there was no one in the house. So he thought: "What is this? This is my disciple's house. He's family man. Why there is none?" That means he could understand that the door is not locked. Door was closed only. Then he could understand that within the door his wife is there. Therefore he knocked the door, and there was response also, knocking, but she could not come out. That means she, she was so poor that she had no garment. She was keeping herself within the room, naked. So Rāmānujācārya could understand that "There is his wife. Maybe she has no sufficient clothing." So immediately, his own cloth he gave her, within the room, and the woman came out, putting on that... And then offered obeisances. So he could understand the position. They were very, very poor. Even no clothing. So after putting on the cloth, she went to the grocer's shop. Because Rāmānujācārya is there. She must receive. Grocer shop. The grocer knew that this woman is very woman, uh, very poor, so his business was to entice her. But she never agreed, although she was young. Now this woman went to the grocer's shop that: "You know that I am very poor. I require immediately some grains, ghee, and other things. My Guru Mahārāja has come at home. I must receive. So tonight I agree with your proposal. Please give me. Even at the sacrifice of my chastity I want this." So the grocer was very glad. "Oh, this woman, I have canvassed her, I have tried to induce her. She never agreed. And now she's agreeing." So: "All right, you take, whatever you like. Take." So she was given all kinds of food grains, as much as she wanted. And she cooked and gave to the spiritual master and his associates, his servants. Everything was very nice. In the meantime, the husband came, working whole day. And he saw that everything was nicely done. "Guru Mahārāja is fed, and his associates, they're fed." So he asked his wife: "How did you get all these things?" Then she narrated the whole story. Then husband also said: "Yes, you have promised. All right. Take some prasādam and go to him. Because you have promised to meet him this evening. So go." Then the grocer heard the whole story and his mind became changed. "Oh, such a chaste woman. Such a faithful... You are my mother. You take more ingredients, grains, as much as you like, you shall..."</p>
<p>So there are still. That is not very long ago. So this was the training. And the psychology is that woman, the first man she meets and if she is kept carefully, she becomes staunch lover. This is psychology. There is good psychology in maintaining the society. Therefore a woman, especially in India, especially in Bengal, before attaining puberty, she was married. Not to meet the husband unless she attains puberty. But she remained at father's house, but she must know that: "I am married. I have got husband." This psychology. Then she becomes very chaste. Because she thinks of her husband, and becomes more and more devoted. So this arrangement that woman must be married before puberty... Or even after puberty, she must get a husband. So if this dharma... It is called kanyā-dāya, kanyā-dāya. Kanyā-dāya means it is very obligatory that the father must get the daughter married. This is dharma. So if this dharma, or this religious principle is violated, that is... Arjuna is marking: adharma-abhi, abhi-bhava. When people become neglectful of the family tradition and religious principles, adharma abhibhavāt kṛṣṇa praduṣyanti kula-striyaḥ ([[Vanisource:BG 1.40 (1972)|BG 1.40]]). Kula-striyaḥ. Kula-striyaḥ means... Kula means family, and striyaḥ means woman. So woman must be belonging to a respectable family. Therefore it is said: kula-striyaḥ. Not society-girls. Kula-striyaḥ. Of the family. We have got experience in our school, college days. I was sitting in a friend's house and one sweeper woman, sweeper, with broomstick and with, what is called, covering?</p>
<p>Devotee: Shawl.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: She was standing, say, about twenty yards distant from our sitting place. So I asked my friend that: "Your, this sweeper woman wants to come in. She's waiting because we are sitting. She is ashamed to come. So let us come here." So we stood separately. That means although she was a sweeper woman, still we had to honor her to enter. We stood up separately. She was feeling that; "How can I go between two men?" This we have seen in our... So this is Vedic culture. Woman should not be allowed to mix with man. Not allowed. In Japan also, the same system. Before marriage, they can mix. But after marriage they cannot mix. In Japan also I have seen. But in India still the system is there. Woman, without husband, cannot talk with any man. That is also psychological. In the Bhāgavata it is stated that man is like ghee, butterpot, and woman is like fire. Therefore, as they, as soon as there is fire and butter pot, the butter pot must melt. Therefore they should be kept aside. These are the statements. And the śāstra says that in a solitary place you should not remain even with your daughter, even with your sister, even with your mother.</p>
:mātṛ-svasra-duhitravan
:na viviktaḥ sanevaśet
:balavān indriya-grāmo
:vidvāṁs api karṣati
<p>Either your mother or sister, or daughter. No, nobody becomes lusty with mother or sister or daughter. But śāstra says: "Even your mother or sister or daughter, you should not live in a solitary place." Then one may question that "How it is possible?" No. The śāstra says: balavān indriya-grāmaḥ. The senses are so strong that it becomes polluted. "Now it may be, some rascal fools may be polluted like that." No. Śāstra... Vidvāṁs api karṣati. Even the most learned, he can be polluted. So sometimes in India, I am criticized that I keep women and men in the same temple. In India, that is not allowed. No women can live at night. They can come and go. But I defend myself that this is the system of the country, the women and men, they intermingle. How can I check it? Then the women, shall I not give them any chance for chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa? No, I shall do this chance, I shall give this chance to woman even at the risk. That is my reply.</p>
<p>So therefore chastity is very, very important thing for producing good population, nice population. So unless the population is good... If the population becomes hippies, then how there can be any peace and prosperity? Therefore, to produce children, there is saṁskāra. First saṁskāra is Garbhādhāna saṁskāra. This is called kula-dharma. Garbhādhāna saṁskāra means when, especially the high caste, brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya especially...Not śūdra. Śūdra has no saṁskāra. Only the higher class, brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya and vaiśya. Vaiśya also sometimes no saṁskāra. But brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya must have saṁskāra. Daśa-vidhā saṁskārāḥ. Ten kinds of saṁskāra. One of the saṁskāra... Saṁskāra means purificatory method. One of the saṁskāra is also marriage. One must get married. So, before the child is given birth, there is a saṁskāra, what is called? Garbhādhāna saṁskāra. It is not that the husband and wife mix without any restriction and have sex life at any time. No. You know that, that mother of Hiraṇyakaśipu, Kaśyapa Muni, I think, father. So she, the woman became very much sexually excited and the husband replied that: "This is not time. This is very bad time, evening. Why you are insisting?" But she was too much lusty, and because the husband was obliged, Hiraṇyakaśipu was born, a demon was born. Therefore there is Garbhādhāna saṁskāra, to find out when the husband and wife should mix and give birth to a child. Therefore in the Bhagavad-gītā you'll see that sex life which is according to the principle of religious ideas, that is "I am." So sex life is not bad, provided it is executed according to the religious principles. So Garbhādhāna saṁskāra... Just, what is the idea? The idea is the child born must be first class. He'll be able to become Kṛṣṇa conscious. He'll be able to understand the śāstras, the Vedas. He must have the good brain. These were the ideas. But if they are not born in that way, like cats and dog, that is called varṇa-saṅkara. Varṇa-saṅkara. You cannot specify whether he's a brāhmaṇa or a kṣatriya and vaiśya and śūdra. That is called varṇa-saṅkara. So varṇa-saṅkara population is not good. Varṇa-saṅkara. No caste. No designation, no definition to which class this man belongs.</p>
<p>So at the present moment, because these purificatory processes are not accepted, even in India... Accepted, they're unable. Everything has topsy-turvied. Therefore the śāstra says that: "Accept everyone as śūdra." Kalau śūdraḥ sambhava. There is no more brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya or vaiśya. All śūdras. We have to accept. Because no Vedic culture, no Garbhādhāna saṁskāra. They are born like cats and dogs. So where is this division? There cannot be. Therefore, accept them as śūdra. Varṇa-saṅkara is less than śūdra. So at least, śūdra they should be. So there is no Vaidic dīkṣā. For śūdra, there is no dīkṣā, there is no initiation. Initiation is meant for the persons who are born in brāhmaṇa family, kṣatriya family, or vaiśya family. The śūdra has no initiation. So in India there are professional gurus. They initiate śūdras, but do not eat foodstuff touched by the disciple. So there are so many things, that if he's initiated, how he can remain śūdra? But they keep him śūdra; at the same time, they become guru. Sanātana Gosvāmī gives direction in the Hari-bhakti-vilāsa that: tathā dīkṣā-vidhānena dvijatvaṁ jāyate nṛṇām. If properly initiated, he becomes immediately brāhmaṇa. Dvijatvam. Dvija means second birth. Yathā kāñcanatāṁ yāti kāṁsyaṁ rasa-vidhānataḥ. There is a chemical process that kāṁsya, bell metal, can be turned into gold by mixing with proportionately mercury. Now here is a hint of chemistry. If anyone can prepare gold... But it is very difficult to mix mercury. As soon as there is little heat, immediately the mercury's finished. So there is a process. Everything has process. Many yogis know how to make gold from copper. Actually, chemically, copper, tin and mercury, if you mix proportionately, it will be gold. So Sanātana Gosvāmī gives this example. As the copper and tin, these two metals, mixed with mercury, there can be production of gold, similarly, by proper initiation, by the proper spiritual master, one śūdra, even though he's a śūdra, less than śūdra, varṇa-saṅkara, or caṇḍāla, he can become dvija, brāhmaṇa. So our process is to make dvija. Pāñcarātrikī vidhi. Pāñcarātrikī vidhi. That is recommended.</p>
:śruti-smṛti-purāṇādi-
:pāñcarātrikī vidhiṁ vinā
:aikāntikī harer bhaktir
:utpātayaiva kalpate
:(Brs. 1.2.101)
<p>Rūpa Gosvāmī gives this direction that the initiation must be done according to śruti, smṛti or pāñcarātrikī vidhi. There is nyāya-prasthāna, śruti-prasthāna and smṛti-prasthāna. To make spiritual progress in three ways: by the Vedānta philosophy, or Vedic ways, or according to Smṛti. Smṛti means authorized books written in accordance to the Śruti. Śruti smṛti. Just like Bhagavad-gītā. Bhagavad-gītā is not directly Vedas, but the all the stanzas of Bhagavad-gītā, they're strictly according to the Nyāya-prasthāna and Śruti-prasthāna. So any book which is strictly written according to the Vedas and Vedāntas, that is also accepted as Vedic literature. So Pāñcarātrikī vidhi means that it doesn't matter whether man is śūdra or caṇḍāla... Caṇḍāla means less than śūdra. Pañcama The fifth grade. First class, brāhmaṇa; second class, kṣatriya; third class, vaśya; fourth class, śūdra; and below this fourth class, they're all caṇḍālas. Caṇḍālas means pañcama. Untouchable. They are called untouchable. So even the untouchables... Because Kṛṣṇa has said: Māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ ([[Vanisource:BG 9.32 (1972)|BG 9.32]]). The pāpa-yoni, caṇḍāla means pāpa-yoni, born of low-grade family... The Bhāgavata says, Śukadeva Gosvāmī says, that: Kirāta-hūnāndhra-pulinda-pulkaśā ābhīra-śumbhā yavanā khasādayaḥ ([[Vanisource:SB 2.4.18|SB 2.4.18]]). Yavana, mlecca yavana. They, they are called... They are also counted amongst the caṇḍālas. Ye 'nye ca pāpāḥ, even lower than that. Ye 'nye ca pāpāḥ śuddhyanti. They become purified. How? Prabhaviṣṇave namaḥ: when they are initiated to become Kṛṣṇa conscious. So if a..., one may argue, "How it is possible to make a caṇḍāla a Vaiṣṇava?" No. That is possible. Prabhaviṣṇave namaḥ. Viṣṇu is so powerful, omnipotent, He can do that. So only by Viṣṇu mantra, by becoming a Vaiṣṇava, one can transcend all these restrictions, sociology. They can be saved(?).

That is confirmed by Kṛṣṇa: māṁ cāvyabhicāriṇī bhakti-yogena yaḥ sevate sa guṇān brahmātītyaitan brahma-bhūyaya kalpate ([[Vanisource:BG 14.26 (1972)|BG 14.26]]). Immediately he transcends. He's in the Brahman platform. One who has taken very seriously this devotional service, he's no more on this material platform. So long we are in the material platform, these distinction, brāhmaṇa, ksatriya, vaiśya, varṇa-saṅkara, they are considered. But when one is transcendentally situated, simply in pure, unalloyed service of the Lord, he's no more in the material platform. He's in the spiritual platform. Brahma-bhūyāya kalpate. He's already in the Brahman platform. Brahman platform means sa guṇān samatītya etān. This material platform means three modes of material nature. Sattva-guṇa, rajo-guṇa, tamo-guṇa. Here, even one is brāhmaṇa... Sattva-guṇa means the brahminical qualification. He's also contaminated. He's conditioned by the material nature. And what to speak of śūdra and varṇa-saṅkara? Everyone is conditioned by the material nature. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī ([[Vanisource:BG 7.14 (1972)|BG 7.14]]). Brāhmaṇa means to be situated, a first-class prisoner. A first-class prisoner is also prisoner. You cannot say that he's free. No, free is different from a first-class prisoner. Sometimes, any respectable gentleman, some political offense, he's put into jail. Just like Gandhi also went to jail. And so many others. But they were given the place, first-class prisoners. They got servant. They got separate bungalow and books, library, all facilities. But they cannot go out of the prison house. They are called first-class prisoners. So to become a brāhmaṇa means to becomes a first-class prisoner. That's all.</p>
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