View source for In this society, Western society, the so-called learned men - they're supposed to be the topmost learned men - they don't even know of the soul. Therefore they're not even in the class of an ignorant man. They're lower than even ignorance

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[[Category:Society]]
[[Category:Western]]
[[Category:So-called Learned]]
[[Category:Learned Man]]
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[[Category:Do Not Know]]
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[[Category:They Are Not]]
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[[Category:Ignorant Men]]
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<h2>Conversations and Morning Walks</h2>
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<h3>1974 Conversations and Morning Walks</h3>
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According to the Vedic system, Indian system, even a most ignorant man knows about the soul, what to speak of the great learned sages. But in this society, Western society, the so-called learned men—they're supposed to be the topmost learned men—they don't even know of the soul. Therefore they're not even in the class of an ignorant man. They're lower than even ignorance.
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[[Vanisource:740613 - Conversation B - Paris|740613 - Conversation B - Paris]]
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Prabhupāda: Kotovsky.

Church Representative: Kotovsky.

Prabhupāda: He is the director of Indology in Moscow.

Church Representative: I see.

Prabhupāda: So my talk with was published in some . . .

Church Representative: Yes, I have this book in my office in Paris.

Prabhupāda: But he does not believe in incarnation, and he still, he is professor of Indology.

Karandhara: He doesn't believe in the soul. Professor Kotovsky, he doesn't believe in the existence of soul.

Church Representative: But I think that he is a Marxist.

Karandhara: Yes. He is a . . . or at least he has to appear as one to maintain his position. Prabhupāda's point is that . . .

Church Representative: There are many professor in Russia of religion, on the history of religion, but who don't believe in nothing.

Karandhara: That was Prabhupāda's point, that it's ironic that in modern societies men are called professors, or being proficient in knowledge, but yet they're ignorant of the soul, which is the most basic knowledge, the most fundamental knowledge. According to the Vedic system, Indian system, even a most ignorant man knows about the soul, what to speak of the great learned sages. But in this society, Western society, the so-called learned men—they're supposed to be the topmost learned men—they don't even know of the soul. Therefore they're not even in the class of an ignorant man. They're lower than even ignorance.

Prabhupāda: And according to Vedic understanding, one who does not understand what is soul—he identifies himself with this body—he is animal.

Church Representative: This is also a fundamental idea of Christian spirituality.

French guest: (French)

Prabhupāda: So in the Vedic language, one who has taken this body as self, yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke ([[Vanisource:SB 10.84.13|SB 10.84.13]]), and sva-dhīḥ kalatrādiṣu, and own men, the family, society, community, national—not outside that—sva-dhīḥ, "They are my own men." Sva-dhīḥ kalatrādiṣu bhauma-ijya-dhīḥ, and the land of birth worshipable, nationalism, yat-tīrtha-buddhiḥ salile na karhicit, and holy place, to take bath in the water of Jordan or Ganges, such persons are considered as go-kharaḥ. Go means cow; kharaḥ means ass. That means animals. What is your conception of the soul? Do you believe in the soul?

Devotee: (explains question in French)

Yogeśvara: He understands English.

Church Representative: I understand. My conception of soul?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Church Representative: Could you precise your question, because what do you mean by this . . .

Prabhupāda: Soul . . .

Church Representative: Yes, I know . . . I cannot say that I know what is soul. I know that there are souls, that I have a soul. But I think that it's very difficult to give adequate . . . (French)

Yogeśvara: He says he knows that he has a soul, but he thinks it would be hard to give an accurate definition of the soul.

Prabhupāda: But if he knows what is soul, where is the difficulty to give definition?

Church Representative: (French)

Paramahaṁsa: So he says he can accept that he has a soul . . .

Church Representative: Certainly, I accept.

Paramahaṁsa: . . . but it would be hard to describe, he thinks, the nature of the soul. He said a body, which is something tangible, we can describe. But something of a spiritual nature, like the soul, must be much more difficult to describe.

Prabhupāda: You can describe it by the negative way, that soul is not body.

Church Representative: (French)

Paramahaṁsa: (translating) Then we are still left with the problem: What is the relationship between the two?

Prabhupāda: First of all let us understand what is the soul. That is described in the Bhagavad-gītā: na jāyate na mriyate vā kadācit, nityaḥ śāśvato 'yam, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre ([[Vanisource:BG 2.20 (1972)|BG 2.20]]). Adāhyo 'yam aśoṣyo 'yam akledyo 'yam ([[Vanisource:BG 2.24 (1972)|BG 2.24]]).
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