View source for But this young boy who was asking what to do with the fascists the day before yesterday, he wanted precisely violence to fight against the fascists. You, remember...?

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[[Category:Questions asked to Srila Prabhupada]]
[[Category:Questions asked to SP... 1974]]
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<div id="Conversations_and_Morning_Walks" class="section" sec_index="5" parent="compilation" text="Conversations and Morning Walks"><h2>Conversations and Morning Walks</h2>
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<div id="1974_Conversations_and_Morning_Walks" class="sub_section" sec_index="7" parent="Conversations_and_Morning_Walks" text="1974 Conversations and Morning Walks"><h3>1974 Conversations and Morning Walks</h3>
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<div id="RoomConversationwithProfRegamayProfessorofSanskritattheUniversityofLausanneJune41974Geneva_0" class="quote" parent="1974_Conversations_and_Morning_Walks" book="Con" index="97" link="Room Conversation with Prof. Regamay, Professor of Sanskrit at the University of Lausanne -- June 4, 1974, Geneva" link_text="Room Conversation with Prof. Regamay, Professor of Sanskrit at the University of Lausanne -- June 4, 1974, Geneva">
<div class="heading">First of all, the thing is that our principle is vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām. Those who are sinful rogues, to kill them. Now, we have to judge whether the fascist, he is sinful or the person attacking the fascist, he is sinful. If both of them are of the same category, then where to use violence or to use nonviolence?
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<span class="link">[[Vanisource:Room Conversation with Prof. Regamay, Professor of Sanskrit at the University of Lausanne -- June 4, 1974, Geneva|Room Conversation with Prof. Regamay, Professor of Sanskrit at the University of Lausanne -- June 4, 1974, Geneva]]: </span><div class="text"><p style="display: inline;">Prof. Regamay: Still, there are two questions I have which remain. One is quite a small question. I have read in your commentary to the chastisement of Droṇa, killing of Droṇa, and where it was that violence for a right cause is better than the so-called nonviolence. Now I wanted to ask, for instance, to find that nonviolence or like Gandhi, it was wrong...</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Gandhi was not a man of spiritual under... He was a politician, that's all.</p>
<p>Prof. Regamay: Yes, but in his personal...</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Gandhi, actually he did not know anything.</p>
<p>Prof. Regamay: Yes, he read Bhagavad-gītā in English.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: That is also nonsense. There was no Kṛṣṇa. There was no Mahābhārata or Kurukṣetra. He has written like that.</p>
<p>Prof. Regamay: But he was dead with the words Rāma, pronouncing, "Rāma Rāma."</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Well, I... That is the process of India to chant the name of Kṛṣṇa. Every Indian has got initial propensity, but actually Gandhi did not know anything about spiritual science. He was politician, that's all. That one Bengal governor, he was from Australia, Mr. Keziar (?). So he, I remember. "Gandhi is a politician amongst the saintly person or a saintly person amongst the politicians." This study was made. His moral principle, character, is very good. That is to be taken by the politicians. But so far his spiritual knowledge is concerned, that is nil.</p>
<p>Prof. Regamay: But nonviolence is not well in every case?</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: No, nonviolence... Actually that is the subject matter of Bhagavad-gītā. What do you mean by nonviolence. Because you are not this body. Suppose if I tear away your coat, does it mean that you are killed? So those who are in the bodily concept of life, "I am this body," for them, this kind of fighting or killing is violence. It is violence. But the thing is, there is sometimes necessity. Just like every state maintains the military force, the police force. What is this? The violence department. Required. That is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā, paritrāṇāya sādhūnām ([[Vanisource:BG 4.8|BG 4.8]]). Suppose you are attacked by some rogue, and if somebody comes and kills him, there is a necessity. It is natural. If you say that time nonviolence, it is foolishness. It is foolishness. Vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām. Those who are rogues and, I mean to say, culprit, criminal, they should be killed. They should be stopped by violence. So violence is required sometimes. Violence is not bad, but it is not to be used ordinarily.</p>
<p>Prof. Regamay: But this young boy who was asking what to do with the fascists the day before yesterday, he wanted precisely violence to fight against the fascists. You, remember...</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: First of all, the thing is that our principle is vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām. Those who are sinful rogues, to kill them. Now, we have to judge whether the fascist, he is sinful or the person attacking the fascist, he is sinful. If both of them are of the same category, then where to use violence or to use nonviolence? Now... Formerly, there was fight between nation to nation and now, we have seen in Italy—I was in Rome—now they are fighting amongst themselves.</p>
<p>Prof. Regamay: Awfully.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Amongst themselves. Now they will fight in the family. So people are becoming so degraded. They require all to be killed.</p>
<p>Prof. Regamay: Yes. (laughter)</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: The fascist and the non-fascist and this and everyone... And that is being prepared, the atomic bomb. You see? They will be all killed, nature's way. You see? They have become so sinful. I am speaking this freely because you are a gentleman, but the civilization, modern civilization, everyone is addicted to intoxication, everyone is flesh-eating, everyone is illicit sex, everyone is addicted to gambling. So where is pure person? They require all to be killed, fascist and non-fascist. Because according to Bhagavad..., paritrāṇāya sādhūnāṁ vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām ([[Vanisource:BG 4.8|BG 4.8]]). All these people, under different names.</p>
<p>Prof. Regamay: Yes, it's violence for the violence's sake practically.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: So people are so degraded, and there is no education, and there are so-called leaders. They are themselves degraded, they are themselves blind. So what is the position of the present society? It is very precarious condition. Therefore, at the end of Kali-yuga, people will be more and more, more and more degraded. There will be no more preaching. Kṛṣṇa will come as Kalki avatāra, simply killing, simply killing. That's all, finished.</p>
<p>Prof. Regamay: But they have still four thousand years of Kali-yuga.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Not four thousand, 400,000. So here the time is coming. And now the partial killing is going on. You drop this... The atom bomb is ready. You have got, I have got. I drop on you, and you drop on me. Both of us, we finish. This is going to be happening. People are so degraded. So unless one takes to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, there is no possibility of being saved. There is example, that grinding mill... You know, grinding mill?</p>
<p>Prof. Regamay: Yes.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Yes, and the grains are put within it and they are all smashed. But one grain who takes shelter of the center, the pivot, it is not smashed. Similarly the modern civilization is such that everyone will be smashed. And one takes the central point shelter, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he will not be. Kaunteya pratijānīhi na me bhaktaḥ praṇaśyati ([[Vanisource:BG 9.31|BG 9.31]]). So best thing is to take shelter of Kṛṣṇa and save yourself. Save means... This is saving, if you simply understand Kṛṣṇa. Janma karma... Kṛṣṇa appears, disappears. Kṛṣṇa works here also, in the battlefield or in other field. Kṛṣṇa has a whole activity. You study Kṛṣṇa Book, beginning from the birth up to the point of His leaving this world. Full of activities. Not that because He is God, He is sitting one place. No. Full of activities in all different spheres of life. Art, philosophy, politics, sociology, military arts—everything complete. That is Kṛṣṇa.</p>
<p>Prof. Regamay: Yes, of course.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: That is Kṛṣṇa. If He would have appeared as Viṣṇu with four-handed, then He had to take only worship. That's all. No other activity. Therefore He appeared with two hands like human being. Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā mānuṣīṁ tanum āśritam ([[Vanisource:BG 9.11|BG 9.11]]). So simply if we understand what are the activities of Kṛṣṇa, then we become eligible to go back to home, back to Godhead. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar. We are teaching that thing, "You try to understand Kṛṣṇa and all problems of life solved. You go back to home, back to Godhead."</p>
<p>Prof. Regamay: Everything is done by Kṛṣṇa, and we are only the tools for Him.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Everything is done by Kṛṣṇa. That's all right. But ye yathā māṁ prapadyante ([[Vanisource:BG 4.11|BG 4.11]]). As you want Kṛṣṇa to do that, He says, "Only just surrender unto Me." He wants that. But you want so many things. Therefore He gives facility. "All right, do it, at your risk." He doesn't want. He says, "Give up all this nonsense." Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇam ([[Vanisource:BG 18.66|BG 18.66]]). "Just surrender unto Me." That He wants. But because we will not do that, we want to do something else, but I cannot do without His sanction, therefore He sanctions. That means Kṛṣṇa does everything. But I want to do, and simply I want His sanction. Therefore, out of His causeless mercy, He agrees, "All right do it." But you have to get the result of it.</p>
<p>Prof. Regamay: I thank you very much.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa.</p>
<p>Prof. Regamay: It was very extremely useful. Just ends some problems. (end)</p>
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