View source for The Christian philosophers, they do not believe in the Paramatma feature, and they say that "If I am punished for my past deeds, then who is the witness?"

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[[Category:Christianity]]
[[Category:Philosophers]]
[[Category:Do Not]]
[[Category:Believe]]
[[Category:Paramatma]]
[[Category:Features]]
[[Category:Say]]
[[Category:Punishment]]
[[Category:Past]]
[[Category:Deeds]]
[[Category:Who Is]]
[[Category:Witness]]
[[Category:Questions Posed by Srila Prabhupada]]
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<div id="Lectures" class="section" sec_index="4" parent="compilation" text="Lectures"><h2>Lectures</h2>
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<div id="Bhagavad-gita_As_It_Is_Lectures" class="sub_section" sec_index="0" parent="Lectures" text="Bhagavad-gita As It Is Lectures"><h3>Bhagavad-gita As It Is Lectures</h3>
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<div id="LectureonBG115LondonJuly151973_0" class="quote" parent="Bhagavad-gita_As_It_Is_Lectures" book="Lec" index="11" link="Lecture on BG 1.15 -- London, July 15, 1973" link_text="Lecture on BG 1.15 -- London, July 15, 1973">
<div class="heading">The professor, Dr. W.S. Urquhart, he did not believe in the karmas. He said that "If I am suffering or enjoying for my last karma, who is the witness? Because some witness must be there that I have done this." But at that time we were not very expert. But this Hṛṣīkeśa is the witness, anumantā upadraṣṭā.
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<span class="link">[[Vanisource:Lecture on BG 1.15 -- London, July 15, 1973|Lecture on BG 1.15 -- London, July 15, 1973]]: </span><div style="display: inline;" class="text"><p style="display: inline;">One must realize that "Everything belongs to God; nothing belongs to me. Even this body is given to me by God. "Why a different body? The different body is... God gives us different body according to our karma. That is explained. Karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa jantur dehopapattaye ([[Vanisource:SB 3.31.1|SB 3.31.1]]). How we get a different type of body? We have got different types of body. Because according to our past karma, we have created a certain type of body and now we have entered into that body and working according to past karma.</p>
<p>The Christian theologicians, they do not believe in the karma. I was student in Christian college, Scottish Churches College. So in our younger days, the Professor, Dr. W.S. Urquhart. So I heard his lecture, that he did not believe in the karmas. He said that "If I am suffering or enjoying for my last karma, who is the witness? Because some witness must be there that I have done this." But at that time we were not very expert. But this Hṛṣīkeśa is the witness, anumantā upadraṣṭā. Upadraṣṭā. He is simply seeing. So the Christians, they have no Paramātmā idea. Sometimes they say holy ghost. Means a clear idea. But this Hṛṣīkeśa is clear idea. Hṛṣīkeśa. Hṛṣīka-īśa.</p>
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<div id="Srimad-Bhagavatam_Lectures" class="sub_section" sec_index="1" parent="Lectures" text="Srimad-Bhagavatam Lectures"><h3>Srimad-Bhagavatam Lectures</h3>
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<div id="LectureonSB3269BombayDecember211974_0" class="quote" parent="Srimad-Bhagavatam_Lectures" book="Lec" index="473" link="Lecture on SB 3.26.9 -- Bombay, December 21, 1974" link_text="Lecture on SB 3.26.9 -- Bombay, December 21, 1974">
<div class="heading">The Christian philosophers, they do not believe in the Paramātmā feature, and they say that "If I am punished for my past deeds, then who is the witness?" Because in the court, if somebody is charged with criminality, there must be some witnesses. So we heard a Christian professor in our college. They did not believe in this witness of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. He is witness within the heart. Witness must be.
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<span class="link">[[Vanisource:Lecture on SB 3.26.9 -- Bombay, December 21, 1974|Lecture on SB 3.26.9 -- Bombay, December 21, 1974]]: </span><div style="display: inline;" class="text"><p style="display: inline;">So the Supersoul is also living with the..., along with this ordinary living entities as friends. That is described in the Upaniṣad, that two birds are sitting on one tree. One bird is eating the fruit and the other bird is simply witness. Paramātmā, upadraṣṭā anumantā. That is described in the Bhagavad-gītā. Paramātmā is existing within our heart. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati ([[Vanisource:BG 18.61|BG 18.61]]). He is simply upadraṣṭā. He is not enjoying. He has no interest to enjoy this material world. But the other bird, the living entity, he is trying to enjoy this material world. And according to his karma, upadraṣṭā... I wanted to do something or I have done something. The resultant action, I will have to enjoy or suffer in the next life. The witness is the Paramātmā, sākṣī, upadraṣṭā anumantā, antaryāmī, sākṣī. We cannot do anything without the knowledge of the Supreme Personality of Godhead in His Paramātmā feature. He is fulfilling our desires and waiting for the opportunity when the living entity will give up this business of eating the fruit of this body, of the tree, and simply become engaged, again come back to the Supersoul. That opportunity He is looking after. So the Christian philosophers, they do not believe in the Paramātmā feature, and they say that "If I am punished for my past deeds, then who is the witness?" Because in the court, if somebody is charged with criminality, there must be some witnesses. So we heard a Christian professor in our college. They did not believe in this witness of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. He is witness within the heart. Witness must be. This is very intelligent, that without witness, how my charges, charges upon me, can be substantiated? The witness is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Upadraṣṭā anumantā. He is seeing everything. So that is puruṣa also, and we are also puruṣa. And above these two puruṣas, the Supreme Puruṣa is Kṛṣṇa, as it is described in the Bhagavad-gītā, Eighth Chapter, puruṣottama-yogam.</p>
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<div id="General_Lectures" class="sub_section" sec_index="11" parent="Lectures" text="General Lectures"><h3>General Lectures</h3>
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<div id="LectureSeattleOctober91968_0" class="quote" parent="General_Lectures" book="Lec" index="23" link="Lecture -- Seattle, October 9, 1968" link_text="Lecture -- Seattle, October 9, 1968">
<div class="heading">Dr. Urquhart's argument was that "Who is the witness? I am suffering the reaction of my previous bad or evil activities, but who is the witness?" But at that time we were not so intelligent. We could not answer. But later on, when we were grown up and studied Bhagavad-gītā, then here, in the Bhagavad-gītā, we saw that upadraṣṭā. The Lord is upadraṣṭā, He is witness.
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<span class="link">[[Vanisource:Lecture -- Seattle, October 9, 1968|Lecture -- Seattle, October 9, 1968]]: </span><div class="text"><p style="display: inline;">Prabhupāda: Take it figuratively or universal form of the Lord, but you cannot escape the seeing power of Govinda. He is seeing always. There are so many witnesses according to Vedic literature. So we cannot do anything hiding from the eyes of the Lord. He is seeing. He is witness. And that is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā: upadraṣṭā anumantā. Upadraṣṭā. Upadraṣṭā means overseer. Overseer.</p>
<p>Now in our childhood... Not childhood. We were at that time college student, Scottish Churches College in Calcutta. So that is Christian college, Scottish Churches. So we had to read Bible also. There was a Bible class from 1:00 to 1:30. So I remember our professor, he was a great philosopher also, Dr. W.S. Urquhart. He was very nice man, very friendly. So he was explaining from Bible. I do not know... The Christians, they do not believe in karma. Is it a fact? They do not believe in karma?</p>
<p>Govinda dāsī: They have a verse that "You reap what you sow," which means whatever you do, you receive the reaction of. It's sort of...</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: So... But karma is accepted? But I do not know. Dr. Urquhart was arguing that if I am suffering or enjoying as the effect of my previous life, so who is the witness? His argument was like this. Just like if I have committed some criminal act, in the court there is need of witness. Then one has to prove that somebody has seen that he has done this. This is simply a legal formality. Who is going to steal while keeping one witness? Nobody's going, but court wants that who has seen that he has stolen. Anyway, Dr. Urquhart's argument was that "Who is the witness? I am suffering the reaction of my previous bad or evil activities, but who is the witness?" But at that time we were not so intelligent. We could not answer. But later on, when we were grown up and studied Bhagavad-gītā, then here, in the Bhagavad-gītā, we saw that upadraṣṭā. The Lord is upadraṣṭā, He is witness. Upadraṣṭā.</p>
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<div id="Conversations_and_Morning_Walks" class="section" sec_index="5" parent="compilation" text="Conversations and Morning Walks"><h2>Conversations and Morning Walks</h2>
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<div id="1976_Conversations_and_Morning_Walks" class="sub_section" sec_index="9" parent="Conversations_and_Morning_Walks" text="1976 Conversations and Morning Walks"><h3>1976 Conversations and Morning Walks</h3>
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<div id="MorningWalkMay151976Honolulu_0" class="quote" parent="1976_Conversations_and_Morning_Walks" book="Con" index="100" link="Morning Walk -- May 15, 1976, Honolulu" link_text="Morning Walk -- May 15, 1976, Honolulu">
<div class="heading">When I was student in Scottish Churches College, we had to attend class, half an hour, Bible. So the argument was: "So if karma is there and I am suffering for my karma, who is the witness?" Because they do not know that the witness is God.
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<span class="link">[[Vanisource:Morning Walk -- May 15, 1976, Honolulu|Morning Walk -- May 15, 1976, Honolulu]]: </span><div class="text"><p style="display: inline;">Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The Christian may argue that God is all-powerful, so God has created the soul, and from that point the soul is eternal.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Soul is eternal, we admit.</p>
<p>Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: But only from that point, not in the past.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Not in the past?</p>
<p>Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes, because according to Biblical philosophy you only have one lifetime in this world.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Then who goes to heaven?</p>
<p>Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Persons who adopt the principles.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: And if one life, then who goes to heaven and who goes to hell?</p>
<p>Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Very few go to heaven.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Anyone, if he goes to hell or heaven, then why do you say "one life"? Then another life. Otherwise what is the meaning of going to heaven or hell?</p>
<p>Hari-śauri: No. They get one chance to good or bad, and then finish.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Eh?</p>
<p>Hari-śauri: They get one chance. Do good or bad. Then you either go to heaven or to hell. But you don't get another chance.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: But if he goes heaven means there is another life. How do you say "one life"? This is defective philosophy.</p>
<p>Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: But this is what God has said in the Bible; therefore we must accept.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Eh?</p>
<p>Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: This is what God has said in the Bible; therefore we must accept.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: God, if He says something unreasonable, how it can be accepted? You say, "one life." Then who goes to the next life? That is defective. Why do you not talk back?</p>
<p>Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: (break) ...cannot explain why some people are born in a more pious setting and some people are born in a more impious setting.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Because they do not know the karma. Karmaṇā daiva netreṇa ([[Vanisource:SB 3.31.1|SB 3.31.1]]). According to one's activities, pious or impious, he gets the next birth. That is quite reasonable. But they do not believe in karma. When I was student in Scottish Churches College, so we had to attend class, half an hour, Bible. So the Dr. Urquhart, he did.... The argument was: "So if karma is there and I am suffering for my karma, who is the witness?" But because they do not know that the witness is God.</p>
<p>Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: He asked that question?</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Yes, he asked that question. (break) Paramātmā.... They say "Holy Ghost." What is that Holy Ghost?</p>
<p>Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The Holy Ghost is supposed to give knowledge to persons who have embraced the teaching.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Therefore He is seeing what you are doing. So according to your action, the Holy Ghost gives you another birth. (break) ...sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe arjuna tiṣṭhati. (break)...dictating everyone's heart, and He is observing. Bhrāmayan sarva-bhūtāni yantrārūḍhāni māyayā ([[Vanisource:BG 18.61|BG 18.61]]).</p>
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