View source for He is what (according to our philosophy, unless one has got perfect knowledge of his self-identification, he remains an animal)?

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[[Category:Questions asked to Srila Prabhupada]]
[[Category:Questions asked to SP... 1975]]
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<div id="Conversations_and_Morning_Walks" class="section" sec_index="5" parent="compilation" text="Conversations and Morning Walks"><h2>Conversations and Morning Walks</h2>
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<div id="1975_Conversations_and_Morning_Walks" class="sub_section" sec_index="8" parent="Conversations_and_Morning_Walks" text="1975 Conversations and Morning Walks"><h3>1975 Conversations and Morning Walks</h3>
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<div id="RoomConversationwiththeRectorProfessorOlivierandProfessorsoftheUniversityofDurbanWestvilleOctober81975Durban_0" class="quote" parent="1975_Conversations_and_Morning_Walks" book="Con" index="206" link="Room Conversation with the Rector, Professor Olivier and Professors of the University of Durban, Westville -- October 8, 1975, Durban" link_text="Room Conversation with the Rector, Professor Olivier and Professors of the University of Durban, Westville -- October 8, 1975, Durban">
<div class="heading">He remains an animal. Just like a dog is thinking, "I am dog." So similarly, if I think, "I am Hindu," then what is the difference? Or if I am thinking, "I am this or that," with the bodily conception of life... Yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke (SB 10.84.13).
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<span class="link">[[Vanisource:Room Conversation with the Rector, Professor Olivier and Professors of the University of Durban, Westville -- October 8, 1975, Durban|Room Conversation with the Rector, Professor Olivier and Professors of the University of Durban, Westville -- October 8, 1975, Durban]]: </span><div class="text"><p style="display: inline;">Professor: I include the transmigration of souls and I include everything else, religion and the lot. But when I speak about science in the English language sense, science in this sense, then I have a problem.</p>
<p>Prof. Olivier: Even the German word wissenschaft that we normally use, which covers, as you say, everything—this is not translatable. The word science is...</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: But in Sanskrit there are two words, jñāna and vijñāna. Jñāna means theoretical knowledge, and vijñāna means practical knowledge. So vijñāna is taken as science. Just like you... Theoretically you know that two hydrogen-oxygen mixed together becomes water. And when you do it practically in the laboratory, that is science, vijñāna. So jñāna-vijñāna-sahitam. In the Bhāgavata it is said, jñānaṁ me paramaṁ guhyaṁ yad-vijñāna-samanvitaḥ. Knowledge of God should be practical application in life. That is vijñānam. And according to our philosophy, unless one has got perfect knowledge of his self-identification, he remains an animal.</p>
<p>Prof. Olivier: He is what?</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: He remains an animal. Just like a dog is thinking, "I am dog." So similarly, if I think, "I am Hindu," then what is the difference? Or if I am thinking, "I am this or that," with the bodily conception of life... Yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke ([[Vanisource:SB 10.84.13|SB 10.84.13]]). If one is thinking in terms of bodily conception—"I am this body"—and based on this foundation, sva-dhī kalatrādiṣu bhauma-ijya-dhīḥ, our family, society, national, so many things we are building up on this bodily conception of life... So,</p>
:yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke
:sva-dhīḥ kalatrādiṣu bhauma-ijya-dhīḥ
:yat-tīrtha-buddhiḥ salile na karhicij
:janeṣv abhijñeṣu sa eva go-kharaḥ
:([[Vanisource:SB 10.84.13|SB 10.84.13]])
<p>Such person is no better than the cow and the asses because he is giving his identification with this body, which he is not. And Vedic realization is ahaṁ brahmāsmi: "I am not this body; I am spirit soul." And the Bhagavad-gītā explains,</p>
:brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā
:na śocati na kāṅkṣati
:samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu
:mad-bhaktiṁ labhate parām
:([[Vanisource:BG 18.54|BG 18.54]])
<p>One, when he is on the platform of Brahman realization, then he becomes jubilant, prasannātmā, na śocati na kāṅkṣati. That life is required, Brahman realization. That is education.</p>
<p>Prof. Olivier: But now do you not think that Christianity and Islam accept this as well?</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: I do not say which religion accepts and which religion does not, but unless one understands that he is not this body—he is different from this body—his education is imperfect.</p>
<p>Indian man (2): But do I mean that up till now your excellency were giving the question of transmigration, field of science, and now you are also taking that subject of God in this sphere of science?</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: It is not God. God is far away. First of all I must know what I am. God is long, long distant.</p>
<p>Indian man (2): But what should be the...</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: First of all you understand what you are, whether you are this body or something other than the body. That is first.</p>
<p>Indian man 2: Whether we are different or separate from God, or we are God. (laughter)</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: That also dog can say, "I am also God." That is not very difficult thing.</p>
<p>Indian man 2: Whether God says or not, it is the question between us, whether we are God...</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: So, that bodily conception of life is dogism. Dog thinks, "I am dog." Cat thinks, "I am cat." Similarly, if I think "I am Hindu," "I am Christian," so what is the difference? Because you are giving some name of religion, therefore you are better than dog?</p>
<p>Indian man (2): With due respect, I want to know the God knows that He is God and dog knows he is dog? (?)</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Why do you bring God? I am not talking of God.</p>
<p>Indian man (2): Dog. Dog.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: I am talking of the soul.</p>
<p>Indian man (2): Whether dog knows that he is dog?</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Yes. He knows the body—"I am dog." That's all.</p>
<p>Indian man (2): Not about body. I am asking the question whether dog knows that he is dog. Cow knows that she is cow?</p>
<p>Professor: Have they got the intelligence to know?</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Unless he knows that I am dog, why he is barking? (laughter)</p>
<p>Indian man (2): Dog is barking, but does he possess discriminative knowledge?</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: That you do not know. Because you are not dog, you cannot understand what dog is thinking. You cannot say what dog is thinking. You cannot say what dog is thinking because you are not dog. But you have to become dog. Then how dog is thinking... For the present time, as you do not know what is dog...</p>
<p>Professor: If we don't start the lecture, we have the dog barking. (laughter) So we have to go for the lecture at 11 o'clock, unfortunately.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: What is that lecture?</p>
<p>Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The students have been invited to hear kīrtana and lecture, Prabhupāda, at another place.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Kīrtana?</p>
<p>Prof. Olivier: Might I just explain. I don't know whether we will have an audience. May I first of all say thank you very much for coming to the university. We are very honored also, sir, that you have been able to come, also that your guests have come, and that you have been able to come. Thank you very much for visiting the university. I unfortunately have a committee of my council meeting this afternoon, and the chairman is coming over shortly. So I will unfortunately not be able to attend your lecture. Thank you very much for coming. Some of you have been here before. We have this week a student break for a week before they start their examinations, so I do not know whether Professor Oosthuizen will have an audience at all. Maybe a few members of staff.</p>
<p>Professor: I told Mr. Bhoola when he asked me about the lecture, I told him that this would be a problem.</p>
<p>Prof. Olivier: Thank you very much for coming.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: If there is no audience, what is the use of holding class?</p>
<p>Prof. Olivier: Well, Professor Oosthuizen here will take charge of you, but if there isn't an audience, I agree that one must be careful not to press too far. It may be more in the nature of a seminar. There might be people sitting around like this, and then there could be discussion. So that would depend on whether there is an audience. Students are funny people. They must be very strongly motivated before they will come away from their examination books at this time.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: So my time for taking bath is half past eleven. They can... You can stay. I can go.</p>
<p>Prof. Olivier: So thank you very much.</p>
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