View source for When the Aryan civilization was there in the past, Swamiji, were there also such kind of economic problems?

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[[Category:Questions asked to Srila Prabhupada]]
[[Category:Questions asked to SP... 1975]]
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<div id="Conversations_and_Morning_Walks" class="section" sec_index="5" parent="compilation" text="Conversations and Morning Walks"><h2>Conversations and Morning Walks</h2>
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<div id="1975_Conversations_and_Morning_Walks" class="sub_section" sec_index="8" parent="Conversations_and_Morning_Walks" text="1975 Conversations and Morning Walks"><h3>1975 Conversations and Morning Walks</h3>
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<div id="MorningWalkOctober191975Johannesburg_0" class="quote" parent="1975_Conversations_and_Morning_Walks" book="Con" index="220" link="Morning Walk -- October 19, 1975, Johannesburg" link_text="Morning Walk -- October 19, 1975, Johannesburg">
<div class="heading">There was no economic problem. Every time... Always this system is followed: cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭām (BG 4.13). And it is the duty of the government to see that this classification is properly being executed. That is the duty of the government. Secular state means that as you like, you can become. But if you claim to become a brāhmaṇa, you must act as a brāhmaṇa, not that you act as a śūdra, bangi, and also you are brāhmaṇa. No. That will not be allowed by the government.
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<span class="link">[[Vanisource:Morning Walk -- October 19, 1975, Johannesburg|Morning Walk -- October 19, 1975, Johannesburg]]: </span><div class="text"><p style="display: inline;">Devotee (4): But man has to progress.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: What is that nonsense progress? To become busy fool? That is progress? Do you think it is progress to become busy fool? This is not progress. The progress means lazy intelligent, that he will not have to work but he will get all the comforts automatically. That is wanted. That is progress. Actually nobody wants to work but he is obliged to work because his necessities are not sufficiently met. Therefore he has to work. He has created such society that he has to work hard.</p>
<p>Indian man (1): Some of them wants to sit in the office and order the directors, "Do this, do this." They want to be on the head. They want to have peace there, but while they are sitting on the chair, they haven't got any peace.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: No.</p>
<p>Indian man (1): So they got to order everybody. That's what I believe.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. He has to tax his brain. Kṛṣṇa has given advice, everything: "Divide the society into four classes: brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra." And then the brāhmaṇas should give nice advice, teacher. The kṣatriyas should govern, and the vaiśyas should produce food and give protection to the cows, and if there is excess, then trade. And śūdras should help, worker. Here I see the Europeans, they are working as the kṣatriyas, government, and the Indians they are working as vaiśya, and the Africans, they are as śūdras. But where is brāhmaṇa? There is no brāhmaṇa; therefore it is not good. It will suffer. And if they accept, the government men accept our advice and do accordingly—we don't want government post, but we can give good advice how to govern—then everyone will be happy. That they are losing. There is no good head. They are simply thinking in their animal way, "Why the Indians should come here?" And the Indians are, "Why whites are neglecting us?" This is going on because there is no good engagement. So this is essential, that the society should be divided into four classes of men: the first-class men-lazy intelligent; second-class men-busy intelligent; and third-class men-lazy fool; and fourth-class men-busy fool.</p>
<p>Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: But we find śūdras even amongst the European class here, even though they are in the governing position.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: No, we are not speaking "Europeans, Americans, Indians." We are speaking "human being." We never say... Bhagavad-gītā never says that the Europeans should be the first-class men and Indian should be the last... It never says. That is training. Just like engineering college. The European also can become engineer, and the Indian also can become engineer. There is no discrimination. Similarly, this division of society, that the whole human society, it should be recruited and trained up... Then society will be all right. Otherwise not.</p>
<p>Indian man (1): Is this still possible, Swamiji? Is there still possibility that that can happen?</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: At any moment, provided you agree. But you do not agree. Nobody is prepared to become a brāhmaṇa. Everyone wants to become a śūdra. This is the modern civilization.</p>
<p>Indian man (1): But can a person become a brāhmaṇa?</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Oh, yes. Why not?</p>
<p>Indian man (1): Doesn't it depend...</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: It is training. How they are become brāhmaṇa? According to śāstra, they are coming from mleccha, yavana. How they have become brāhmaṇa? More than brāhmaṇa. But they are abiding by the rules. You see? They are accustomed to eat meat from the very birth. They have given up. And if we request Indians, they will not give up, although their forefathers never ate meat.</p>
<p>Indian man (1): Does it say somewhere in the Bhagavad-gītā that we shouldn't eat meat?</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. Yes. Ahara-śuddhi. There are three kinds, four kinds of ahara: sattvika, rājasika, tamasika. Everything is there. The classification of ahara. Meat is tamasikāhara, fourth class. It is not first class.</p>
<p>Indian man (1): When the Aryan civilization was there in the past, Swamiji, were there also such kind of economic problems?</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: There was no economic problem. Every time... Always this system is followed: cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭām ([[Vanisource:BG 4.13|BG 4.13]]). And it is the duty of the government to see that this classification is properly being executed. That is the duty of the government. Secular state means that as you like, you can become. But if you claim to become a brāhmaṇa, you must act as a brāhmaṇa, not that you act as a śūdra, bangi, and also you are brāhmaṇa. No. That will not be allowed by the government.</p>
<p>Indian man (1): The purity must be there.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: (break) Yes. In the whole world you won't find qualified brāhmaṇas. And they are required for guiding the human society. So therefore the human society is in chaotic condition. There is no guidance. The śūdras, they make things by vote. And what they'll vote? They're all rascals. What is the value of their votes? So that is going on all over the world. Fools and rascals they vote, and another rascal is selected. And after some time—"Oh, he is not suitable. Get him down," Nixon, and replace another fool, rascal. That's all.</p>
<p>Indian man (1): That is continuously going on.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: (laughs) Going on. The democracy means the selector, the elector, they are all fools and rascals. So how he will select a person who is not rascal?</p>
<p>Indian man (1): Is it possible that every man's life is directed by God, and you're born to do certain things, and you come to be prime minister or something?</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Yes, there is something like that. But I am talking of, if you depend on God, then why do you keep elections? You are opportunist. Sometimes you take shelter of God and sometimes of your election power. If you are so firm believer in God, then why election? Let God elect. Why you take part in election? Huh? Let God elect the prime minister. Why you are busy in giving vote? (break) God elected Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira. Hm? His plan was that Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira should be king, not Duryodhana. So He killed all the Duryodhana's party and selected Yudhiṣṭhira: "Sit down here." That is God's election. So why you elect? Depend on God.</p>
<p>Indian man (1): And that comes through lack of spiritual knowledge, Swamiji?</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Yes, no knowledge. No spiritual knowledge means he is animal. That's all. Sa eva gokharaḥ. This is the final verdict. One who has no spiritual knowledge, he is no better than these cows and dogs. That's all. Therefore guidance of the brāhmaṇa required. Why the brāhmaṇas are selected to guide? Because they have got full vijñāna, jñānaṁ vijñānam āstikyam, therefore.</p>
<p>Indian man (1): It is very necessary for the brāhmaṇas. We must have brāhmaṇas in the society.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. You are very intelligent. Therefore we are creating some brāhmaṇas. We are not creating the busy fools. No. </p>
<p>Devotee (5): Does that mean that the more one gets control over his senses, he becomes more lazy intelligent?</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. One who is servant of his senses, what is intelligence? That is dog's intelligence. As soon as he sees one lady dog, and ten dogs come here and begin to smell vagina. Is that intelligence? So the human society is like that. They're smelling the vagina of the girls, that's all. Everyone is doing that.</p>
<p>Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: So the activities of the lazy intelligent are jñāna-vijñāna?</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Jñāna-vijñānam, yes.</p>
<p>Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Not sleep. Not sleep.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: No. This is the term used, "lazy," but real term is dhīra. The Sanskrit word is dhīra. And everything... Just like high-court judge, he is dhīra. He is... Before giving judgment, he thinks three days, silently. That is your... That is not laziness. His brain is working how to give nice judgment. That is required. But because we do not understand what is dhīra, we think that "This man is sitting idly and drawing four thousand rupees." Because we know, "Unless one is active like dog, running there, running there, he is not a busy man." And he cannot appreciate the work of the author, the work of the high-court judge. They think they are lazy. Therefore he's using the lazy, but lazy and intelligent. Otherwise he is not lazy; he is dhīra. The word is dhīra. Dhīras tatra na muhyati ([[Vanisource:BG 2.13|BG 2.13]]). Unless one is dhīra, one cannot understand that there is soul within the body. (break) Kṛṣṇa uses this word, dhīras tatra na muhyati. One has to become dhīra, sober, silent. Then he can understand. Not these busy dogs.</p>
<p>Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: But Arjuna is fighting for Kṛṣṇa.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: No, no... You try one point. Arjuna's fighting is... That is all right. So what is your question? The subject matter was different. Now you jump over to another. Why?</p>
<p>Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Hare Kṛṣṇa.</p>
<p>Indian man (1): So everything is in the Bhagavad-gītā. Everything is there.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. This understanding, that soul is different from the body, it is meant for the dhīra, not for the adhīra. There are two classes men, dhīra and adhīra. So adhīra</p>
<p>means busy fool, and dhīra means lazy intelligent. But our, this movement is meant both for the dhīra and adhīra. Adhīra. We can make them really human beings. Never mind he is dhīra or adhīra. It is so nice movement. Dhīrādhīra. Kṛṣṇotkīrtana-gāna-nartana-parau premāmṛtāmbho-nidhī dhīrādhīra priyau. It is very pleasing both for the dhīras and adhīras. Why not? What we are doing? We invite people, "Please come here. Chant, dance, and take prasāda." So both the dhīras and adhīras, they will be attracted. Dhīrādhīra priya. (break) You cannot make everyone dhīra; that is not possible. There is necessity of adhīra also. That is also... But it should be guided by the dhīra.</p>
<p>Indian man (1): Adhīra should be guided by the dhīra.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Yes. Adhīra should be guided by the dhīra. Then it will be all right. (break) Unnecessarily.</p>
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