View source for What does it mean in the Gita, Prabhupada, when Krsna says only the modes of material nature are acting?

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{{terms|"What does the Lord mean in Bhagavad-gita when He says that only the modes of material nature act"}}
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[[Category:Questions asked to Srila Prabhupada]]
[[Category:Questions asked to SP... 1975]]
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<div id="Conversations_and_Morning_Walks" class="section" sec_index="5" parent="compilation" text="Conversations and Morning Walks"><h2>Conversations and Morning Walks</h2>
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<div id="1975_Conversations_and_Morning_Walks" class="sub_section" sec_index="8" parent="Conversations_and_Morning_Walks" text="1975 Conversations and Morning Walks"><h3>1975 Conversations and Morning Walks</h3>
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<div id="MorningWalkDecember231975Bombay_0" class="quote" parent="1975_Conversations_and_Morning_Walks" book="Con" index="267" link="Morning Walk -- December 23, 1975, Bombay" link_text="Morning Walk -- December 23, 1975, Bombay">
<div class="heading">You are committing sinful life, so you have to rectify yourself.
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<span class="link">[[Vanisource:Morning Walk -- December 23, 1975, Bombay|Morning Walk -- December 23, 1975, Bombay]]: </span><div class="text"><p style="display: inline;">Lokanātha: (break) ...body is finished, everything is finished.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Hm?</p>
<p>Lokanātha: When body is finished, everything is finished, so why...</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: That is their foolishness. You were a child; that body is finished. So you have got a different body. But this simple truth they do not understand; that is their folly. If the body is finished, then why you were a child, you have become a young man? Body is finished, but not everything is finished, everything is there. Only the body is finished. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre ([[Vanisource:BG 2.20|BG 2.20]]). This is explained. So when the body is finished, that does not mean that you are finished. You have to accept another body. That is real truth, and it is spoken by Kṛṣṇa, not any so-called scientist. The Supreme Person says, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre. What do they say about this statement of Kṛṣṇa, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre, that when your body is finished you are not finished?</p>
<p>Lokanātha: Well they won't accept Kṛṣṇa either.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Then, how rascal they are!</p>
<p>Indian man: (indistinct) you know there is soul.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Ha.</p>
<p>Indian man: Body is finished and ātmā is emerged. So, what, why the ātmā suffers next generation for the deeds done by the body in this life?</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Because ātmā is continuation.</p>
<p>Indian man: Continuation, I understand. Suppose my body does something...</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Not body is doing, you are doing...</p>
<p>Indian man: I am doing, that means...</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Therefore you must suffer.</p>
<p>Indian man: ...my ātmā is not doing. Atma is...</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Ātmā is doing; therefore ātmā is suffering. You are not doing. When the ātmā is born out of your body, body does not do anything. Then...</p>
<p>Indian man: Ātmā...</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Yes.</p>
<p>Indian man: Ātmā is amara. So it is eternal, it has no death, no life, no.... It has got a birth, it has got a death that only are superfluous, say only for consolation. But actually it does not die. Body dies, or body destroyed, and that is (indistinct) or suffering. But, when I do something good or bad in this life, see, I am doing.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: You are doing, and therefore you must suffer.</p>
<p>Indian man: But that is not ātmā. Why ātmā is...</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: ...do not know.</p>
<p>Indian man: (indistinct) ...even (indistinct) ātmā.</p>
<p>Girirāja: You are the ātmā.</p>
<p>Indian man: Not ātmā.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: You do not understand that you are ātmā. Aham brahmasmi. That you do not understand. You think "I am body." That is nonsense.</p>
<p>Indian man: That point is not clear.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Why not clear? That means your intelligence is not clear.</p>
<p>Indian man: (spluttering) ...naturally, but listen what I say.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: So, the ātmā, that is stated in the Bhāgavata, antavanta ime dehā nityasyoktāḥ śarīriṇaḥ ([[Vanisource:BG 2.18|BG 2.18]]). Nityasyoktāḥ, nityasyoktāḥ, śarīriṇaḥ. Śarīriṇaḥ means the soul who possesses this body, he is nitya. So, you have to enjoy or suffer the reaction of your activities. Karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa ([[Vanisource:SB 3.31.1|SB 3.31.1]]). You have got a type of body on account of your activities.</p>
<p>Indian man: But how ātmā... Suppose I am doing some sins? So how ātmā can be controlling. Suffering...</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: You are doing sin, you have to control.</p>
<p>Kīrtanānanda: What does the Lord mean in Bhagavad-gītā when He says that only the modes of material nature act...</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: You are committing sinful life, so you have to rectify yourself.</p>
<p>Indian man: He is the controller of my body, ātmā is the controller of my...</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Yes.</p>
<p>Indian man: So if I am doing sins, you mean to say, that ātmā is doing because that is his responsibility.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Yes.</p>
<p>Indian man: If manager does..., if the worker does something wrong, the manager is indirectly responsible.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: No, no, no. Why do you say manager? You are doing...</p>
<p>Indian man: Yes, but suppose...</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: No "I suppose." That is not suppose. You are doing sinful activities or pious activities. It is you, ātmā, jīvātmā.</p>
<p>Indian man: So that means jīvātmā, he is...</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Responsible...</p>
<p>Indian man: ...responsible for any good or bad deeds for my life?</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Yes.</p>
<p>Indian man: Because he's controller of the body. So he's responsible.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Yes. Bodies only means, suppose you are motorcar, you are driving this way or that way, the motorcar is not driving you. You are driving the motorcar.</p>
<p>Indian man: Huh huh.</p>
<p>Kīrtanānanda: What does it mean in the Gītā, Prabhupāda, when Kṛṣṇa says only the modes of material nature are acting?</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Material nature means because you are in diseased condition in this material world, therefore according to the infection. Just like you have got body, and he has got body. You are suffering from typhoid; he is suffering from smallpox. So you have contaminated the typhoid germs, and he has contaminated smallpox. So the, this body is after all material body, so there is infection of material nature, tri-guṇātmaka. Therefore you have to transcend this position of tri-guṇātmaka. Then you are cured.</p>
:māṁ ca yo 'vyabhicārena
:bhakti-yogena sevate
:sa guṇān samatītyaitān
:braham-bhūyāya kalpate
:([[Vanisource:BG 14.26|BG 14.26]])
<p>If you transcend the infection of the three modes of material nature, then you are safe. So long you do not transcend, just like so long we infect some disease, then you must suffer. But if you don't infect, you'll not suffer. That is up to you. There is disease, cholera disease; why shall I go there? Why shall I infect my body in that way? That is up to you. If you don't take precaution, then you will suffer. Jaya.</p>
<p>Śrīdhara: The soul is pure, part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa...</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Yes, but he is covered by the material body. The material body is infected by the modes of material nature. Therefore, although he is pure, he is subjected. Just like when there is motor accident, you are separate from the motor, but you have to suffer. Everyone knows that I am separate from the motorcar, but why I am suffering? Because you have got bad car, you must suffer.</p>
<p>Śrīdhara: That may be because I'm an imperfect driver.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: So you are imperfect; therefore this movement is to make you perfect. If you are not imperfect, then why the movement is there? To make you perfect. Saṁsiddhiṁ paramaṁ gataḥ. Mām upetya kaunteya duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam ([[Vanisource:BG 8.15|BG 8.15]]). So long you are imperfect, you must suffer in this material world. And as soon as you become perfect, you go back to home, back to.... Because you are imperfect, therefore this movement is necessary. Medicine is there for the patient, not for the person in perfect health. Mūdho' yaṁ nābhijānāti mām eva param avyayam ([[Vanisource:BG 7.25|BG 7.25]]). These rascals they do not know Kṛṣṇa; therefore the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is necessary. Para upakāra. Caitanya Mahāprabhu says para upa, para upakāra. You know yourself what is Kṛṣṇa, and distribute this knowledge. That is wanted. That is entrusted to the Indians.</p>
:bhārata bhūmite manuṣya janma hoilā jāra
:janma sārthaka kari kara para upakāra
:([[Vanisource:CC Adi 9.41|CC Adi 9.41]])
<p>This is wanted.</p>
<p>Śrīdhara: So the soul is the doer and the nondoer of the activities, sinful activities, or, as the soul is pure, so...</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like when you are condemned to death by the judgment of the high-court, so who is the doer, the high-court judge, or you? Huh? Is the high-court judge your enemy, that he has condemned you to death? He has given the judgment; you cannot say he is the doer. You are the doer. So ātmā and Paramātmā. You do, and Paramātmā gives judgment. Daiva-netreṇa. By the superior judgment.</p>
<p>Lokanātha: But it is said all the actions are carried out by the three modes of material nature, and...</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Yes.</p>
<p>Lokanātha: ...the ātmā is just the non-doer. Ātmā doesn't do anything.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: No, no. He has put himself to the shelter of material nature. As soon as you come to India or you come to some other country, you must be under the laws of that country. So why do you come here? Kṛṣṇa bhuliyā jīva bhagavān sa kari. You have come to the material world to enjoy, so you must suffer also.</p>
<p>Kīrtanānanda: We've seen the example used, Prabhupāda, that just like a man, if he goes to sleep at night and he dreams that he has committed some murder or some...</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: So why does he dream?</p>
<p>Kīrtanānanda: ...he enjoys or suffers the activities, but actually he is...</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Yes, but why he dreams like that? One is dreaming like that, another is dreaming a different way. That is due to his practice. (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa.</p>
<p>Śrīdhara: People say then that the soul must be impure. If the soul can, not...</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Impure in this sense: that he has come in touch with the impure. And if he becomes untouched with the impure, then he is no more impure. That is described in Bhagavad-gītā,</p>
:māṁ ca yo 'vyabhicāreṇa
:bhakti-yogena sevate
:sa guṇān samatityaitān
:brahma-bhūyāya kalpate
:([[Vanisource:BG 14.26|BG 14.26]])
<p>Immediately he becomes pure. Kṛṣṇa says,</p>
:sarva-dharmān parityajya
:mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja
:ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo
:mokṣayīṣyāmi...
:([[Vanisource:BG 18.66|BG 18.66]])
<p>"I shall make you immediately pure." Why don't you do that? You want to remain impure, so you must suffer.</p>
<p>Kīrtanānanda: Therefore everything is situated on desire.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Huh? Yes. We are desiring to enjoy the sense enjoyment of this material world, then you remain impure. So long you shall desire sense enjoy.... Therefore bhakti means anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam (Brs. 1.1.11), make zero all your desires, material desires. Desire cannot be zero. Purīfy your desires. Desire how to serve Kṛṣṇa. Then it is pure. (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. You singing daily in the morning, āra nā koriho mane āśā. Do you know the meaning?</p>
<p>Devotee: "No other desires."</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Yes. Āra nā.... guru mukha padma vakhya cittete koriya aikyā āra nā korioa mane āśā. That is purification. A guru says something, and you do something else, then you are desiring something, then you are not pure. Therefore daily you are saying, āra nā koriho mane āśā. Don't desire anything. Then you remain pure. As soon as you decide that "I shall serve only Kṛṣṇa," you become pure, immediately. Ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayīṣyāmi ([[Vanisource:BG 18.66|BG 18.66]]). You are delivered from all sinful reactions, then how you are impure? You keep that position, pure position, then your life is successful. Āra nā koriho... And if you plan something (chuckles) "I am very expert in planning; I shall do this, I shall do that, not serve Kṛṣṇa," then you remain impure.</p>
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