View source for But why the samudra changes (phenomena is changeable, always changing. Just like this samudra - sometimes here, sometimes there)? We go into there, into deep depth of that...

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{{terms|"But why the samudra changes? We go into there, into deep depth of that"|"Phenomena is changeable, always changing. Just like this samudra"|"sometimes here, sometimes there"}}
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[[Category:Questions asked to Srila Prabhupada]]
[[Category:Questions asked to SP... 1975]]
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<div id="Conversations_and_Morning_Walks" class="section" sec_index="5" parent="compilation" text="Conversations and Morning Walks"><h2>Conversations and Morning Walks</h2>
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<div id="1975_Conversations_and_Morning_Walks" class="sub_section" sec_index="8" parent="Conversations_and_Morning_Walks" text="1975 Conversations and Morning Walks"><h3>1975 Conversations and Morning Walks</h3>
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<div id="MorningWalkDecember241975Bombay_0" class="quote" parent="1975_Conversations_and_Morning_Walks" book="Con" index="268" link="Morning Walk -- December 24, 1975, Bombay" link_text="Morning Walk -- December 24, 1975, Bombay">
<div class="heading">That is truth. That is truth. By the yasyājñayā bhramati sambhṛta-kāla-cakro, that is truth. Govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi **. That is truth. The phenomena, that is changing. Bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate (BG 8.19).
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<span class="link">[[Vanisource:Morning Walk -- December 24, 1975, Bombay|Morning Walk -- December 24, 1975, Bombay]]: </span><div style="display: inline;" class="text"><p style="display: inline;">So explain what is the experiment with truth.</p>
<p>Dr. Patel: Now we must make. I have booked a visit at 7:15.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Hm?</p>
<p>Dr. Patel: At 7:15 I have booked a visit.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: So...</p>
<p>Dr. Patel: Ha, tell me what is your...</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: No, what is this experiment with truth?</p>
<p>Dr. Patel: About what?</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Anything. The world.</p>
<p>Dr. Patel: There are two types of experiments, sir, according to me. I may be wrong and I am open to correction. One experimentation with the crude world; another experiment with your own mind. Which type of experiment we want?</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: No, mind we reject immediately.</p>
<p>Dr. Patel: How?</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Because it is not truth. It is accepting, it is rejecting.</p>
<p>Dr. Patel: Man sai eva (indistinct)</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Mind's business is to accept and reject. Therefore it is not truth.</p>
<p>Dr. Patel: Only by mind and concentration of the mind you get the truth.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Concentration is different.</p>
<p>Dr. Patel: But that is also of what? Of the mind.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: The mind, when you concentrate the mind to the truth, then it is all right.</p>
<p>Dr. Patel: That is what I say. By concentration of the mind you get the truth. That is the right.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Mind is not truth.</p>
<p>Dr. Patel: Mind is not truth, but by mind we get at the truth.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Yes. We can direct our mind towards truth.</p>
<p>Dr. Patel: I did not mean mind is truth. All that is made up of māyā, all that is made up of, I mean, mahatsab(?) and down below, are all falsehood.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Therefore, experiment with truth is not experiment with the mind. So what is that truth, or what is that experiment?</p>
<p>Dr. Patel: What is.... First of all, let us know what is mind by experiment.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Experiment means to examine whether it is truth or not.</p>
<p>Dr. Patel: That examines, who examines and what? Who examines the mind, man's mind? After all, no? And examination of anything depends upon the state of the mind, sir, according to the psychology. More concentrated the mind, better it will be nearer the truth.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Yes, that's all right...</p>
<p>Dr. Patel: That is what I say.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: ...but, my point is...</p>
<p>Dr. Patel: See, experiment depends upon all that.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: ...if there is truth, where is the scope of experiment?</p>
<p>Dr. Patel: I mean, that you want to, you want to pick up that point, then you are absolutely right, there is no experiment.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Yes. It is contradiction. If you say "truth," there is no question of experiment. That I..., try to understand. It is contradiction.</p>
<p>Dr. Patel: By all these jñāni-yogīs, I mean you are a bhakti-yogī, but I talk of jñāna-yogīs.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Jñāna-yoga is also truth if you follow. Just like jñānāvasthitā tad gatena manasā. So that is truth. But when there is question of experiment, that is not truth. That is my point.</p>
<p>Dr. Patel: Then they are making experiment in an area which is not already known.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Yes, that means that that is not truth. So experiment with truth cannot be; this is contradiction.</p>
<p>Dr. Patel: No, you are right that way.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Yes.</p>
<p>Dr. Patel: But your how..., ask a question puzzling with me. So I...</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: No, I ask you, that how this experiment with truth can be?</p>
<p>Dr. Patel: The experiment with sciences, we are making experiment with biological sciences and abstract, I mean sciences of physics and chemistry, and that those who are truths already, we are trying to honor. We cannot make truths. Truths are there already settled by God. God, we try to find out what is exactly, and how it is being done. But we are not trying to find out who is doing. That is your point. I understand.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: No. If the truth is there, there is no question of experiment.</p>
<p>Dr. Patel: We are experimenting to find out the truth. Truth is there. My house is there, sir, but you may go this way or that way, that way. We are making experiment to go to my house.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: So that means you do not know what is the truth.</p>
<p>Dr. Patel: Truth is there, but we do not know the truth. That's a fact.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Yes, that's a fact.</p>
<p>Dr. Patel: We are making experiment to..., experiment by this way will lead up to the truth.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Yes.</p>
<p>Dr. Patel: Experiment means repeat, with regard to the matter of finding out the truth. Not with the truth itself.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Yes. But the word means, "experiment with truth," that is contradiction. There cannot be any experiment with truth. Truth is truth.</p>
<p>Dr. Patel: Truth cannot be experimented upon.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Yes. That is...</p>
<p>Dr. Patel: That I quite agree with you, and I become (indistinct). But so far as the method of finding out truth, that I experiment with.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: That can be there, that is another thing.</p>
<p>Dr. Patel: All our physical sciences...</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Another thing...</p>
<p>Dr. Patel: I mean, ah, I mean, ah...</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa! ( to passerby) (Hindi ) Are you all right?</p>
<p>Dr. Patel: All these sciences, mathematics, chemistry, physics, they have really been advanced by experimentation only. Because we did not know what the truth is behind all these natural phenomena, and we tried to find out the real, how the natural phenomena are, I mean, happening, and that is what the experimentation of the human race was searching out the truth...</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: That is explained in Bhagavad-gītā, tattva-jñānārtha-darśanam. Tattva-jñānārtha-darśana.</p>
<p>Dr. Patel: But these truths, sir, are approached, I mean actually realized, by various ways. The, I mean the jñāna-yogīs or yogis, what you call, they realize it, I mean, because the jñānis, they become, by concentration of their mind on the truth, they, that which is highest truth or God. They are after all trying...</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: The yogis, they have already found the truth. Jñānāvasthitā tad-gatenā manasa pasyanti yaṁ yoginam. So they have already found out the truth, and they are concentrating. That is not experiment. They have already know.</p>
<p>Dr. Patel: But, I don't say they have experimented on the truth, sir. I think I am not making myself more clear to you. What I meant to say is they have experimented by concentration of the mind to find out the truth, and they realize the truth that way.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: No. Realize, that's a fact. Now they are acting, by.... Tad-gatena manasā, mind is fixed up in Supersoul, Paramātmā. That is yoga.</p>
<p>Dr. Patel: Yes. You mean to say, hm, that...</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: They have already, nobody (indistinct) truth.</p>
<p>Dr. Patel: Yes. Brahma-vid brahma eva bhavati, he is just like.... All the knowledge of God is imbibed within.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Yes, he is concentrated. Just like our bhakti. Bhakti means we know, "Here is God: kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam ([[Vanisource:SB 1.3.28|SB 1.3.28]])." So there is no question of experimenting. Now we are known, we are concentrating how to satisfy. There is no question of experimentation.</p>
<p>Dr. Patel: But the physical scientists' method, chemistry, biology, is, I mean, this physics, they have to experiment in their.... They are nothing but the finding out the truth behind the phenomena, the material phenomena. That is what I mean.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Phenomena is changeable, always changing. Just like this samudra—sometimes here, sometimes there.</p>
<p>Dr. Patel: Yes, right, sir. But why the samudra changes? We go into there, into deep depth of that...</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: That is truth. That is truth. By the yasyājñayā bhramati sambhṛta-kāla-cakro, that is truth. Govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi **. That is truth. The phenomena, that is changing. Bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate ([[Vanisource:BG 8.19|BG 8.19]]).</p>
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