View source for In that case (we are transcendental to all these material divisions. This is material division), in which of these four divisions are we (ISKCON)?

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[[Category:Questions asked to Srila Prabhupada]]
[[Category:Questions asked to SP... 1973]]
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<div id="Conversations_and_Morning_Walks" class="section" sec_index="5" parent="compilation" text="Conversations and Morning Walks"><h2>Conversations and Morning Walks</h2>
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<div id="1973_Conversations_and_Morning_Walks" class="sub_section" sec_index="6" parent="Conversations_and_Morning_Walks" text="1973 Conversations and Morning Walks"><h3>1973 Conversations and Morning Walks</h3>
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<div id="RoomConversationwithFrenchJournalistandUNESCOWorkerAugust101973Paris_0" class="quote" parent="1973_Conversations_and_Morning_Walks" book="Con" index="58" link="Room Conversation with French Journalist and UNESCO Worker -- August 10, 1973, Paris" link_text="Room Conversation with French Journalist and UNESCO Worker -- August 10, 1973, Paris">
<div class="heading">First-class. That is the beginning. But we go above the first-class. (break) Similarly, socially also, you must have four divisions. The reason is the material nature is working under three divisions, goodness, passion and ignorance. In our body also, the brain is working under goodness quality. The arm is working under the influence of passion. The belly is working in between passion and ignorance. And the leg is working under ignorance. Leg cannot work unless there is direction by the brain. At the present moment, the society's working under the influence of passion and ignorance. The brain is lacking now. Therefore we are creating Kṛṣṇa conscious men who has got real brain. Intelligent class of men.
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<span class="link">[[Vanisource:Room Conversation with French Journalist and UNESCO Worker -- August 10, 1973, Paris|Room Conversation with French Journalist and UNESCO Worker -- August 10, 1973, Paris]]: </span><div class="text"><p style="display: inline;">Prabhupāda: Yes. So it is the most refined socialism. Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement... Our socialism means centering around Kṛṣṇa. Just like Russian socialism is around the ideas of Marx or Lenin. So we have got also similar leader. As the communist has got the leader, Marx or Lenin, similarly we have also got the leader, Kṛṣṇa.</p>
<p>Bhagavān: There is, there is kind of socialist or communist philosophy that says that everyone must be able to do the same work in order to be equal.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: That is not possible. That is rascaldom. We have divided already four classes of men. Even in Russia... Even in Russia, I have seen, they have created two classes, the worker class, the manager class. I have seen it. Yes. So you cannot say that everyone will do the same work. That is not possible. I have given already the example, the brain, the arms, the abdomen and the leg. The leg cannot do the work of brain. Leg can cooperate with the brain, but cannot do the work of brain. This is natural position.</p>
<p>Yogeśvara: He asks: In our society do these four divisions also exist?</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes.</p>
<p>Yogeśvara: In ISKCON, are there these four divisions?</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: No, we are transcendental to all these material divisions. This is material division.</p>
<p>Yogeśvara: In that case, in which of these four divisions are we?</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: First-class. That is the beginning. But we go above the first-class. (break) Similarly, socially also, you must have four divisions. The reason is the material nature is working under three divisions, goodness, passion and ignorance. In our body also, the brain is working under goodness quality. The arm is working under the influence of passion. The belly is working in between passion and ignorance. And the leg is working under ignorance. Leg cannot work unless there is direction by the brain. At the present moment, the society's working under the influence of passion and ignorance. The brain is lacking now. Therefore we are creating Kṛṣṇa conscious men who has got real brain. Intelligent class of men. So other classes of men who are acting under influence of passion and ignorance, they should take direction from us. And for our directing business, we don't charge anything. And if they follow our direction, they have no loss.</p>
<p>Bhagavān: It can be tested.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore this movement is the most important movement. For giving direction, we don't charge, and by following our direction, they don't lose anything. So why not make an experiment and see the result? The result is already there. Any intelligent man can see. It is not bluff.</p>
<p>Bhagavān: We are living, sixty, seventy people in this house, cooperatively, like this. That is a very great thing.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: And they are living very happily. You can see from their face. Yes. They are known as bright-faced. Yes. Many, I mean, Christian priests, they came to congratulate me: "Swamiji, how you have made your disciples so jolly and bright-faced?" The government in America, they are surprised, that even after spending millions of dollars, they could not drive away LSD intoxication. And as soon as a intoxicated person comes to our camp, he not only gives up LSD and liquor, he gives up even smoking, drinking tea and coffee. So why not experiment this movement. The greatest socialist movement. If you want to get the socialistic idea, we can give you. Would you like to take?</p>
<p>Reporter: Oh, I don't trust. I could trust. Yeah. But...</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Our socialistic idea, you can note down...</p>
<p>Reporter: I have nothing to lose but do you think you could manage all society very complex, as our...</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Yes.</p>
<p>Reporter: It's more than...</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: We can, we can make the society perfect if they take our advice. Because we are working as the brain.</p>
<p>Bhagavān: He can see Prabhupāda's books. Our philosophy is not small philosophy.</p>
<p>Reporter: Just a last question. Just... You were saying, minute before that the socialism, your socialism is that Kṛṣṇa is your Marx, sort of.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Yes.</p>
<p>Reporter: Yeah. But... It will be my last question. What about you in that? Would you be, you are a spiritual chief. Would you be...?</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: I am not spiritual chief. Kṛṣṇa is spiritual chief.</p>
<p>Reporter: Yeah.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Yes. I am simply explaining what Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā. I am acting on His behalf. I am acting on His behalf. Just like Kṛṣṇa says that there is no more higher authority than Him. I am speaking to my students: "There is no more higher authority than Kṛṣṇa." So, in other words, there is no difference between Kṛṣṇa's statement and my statement.</p>
<p>Reporter: I understand. But you know that if you want for changing society you must have a force...</p>
<p>Yogeśvara: You need the strength to change society.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Eh?</p>
<p>Yogeśvara: You have to have sufficient strength to change society.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: I may not have sufficient strength. I can... If I can convert a dozen of people, that is my success.</p>
<p>Reporter: I think, I think...</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: And if you want to know our socialistic idea, I can give you.</p>
<p>Reporter: Yeah. Because I thought you know, it was just an idea of your... But I shall never think it was so, so much clear.</p>
<p>Yogeśvara: He never thought that our program was quite so detailed.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: It is most scientific program.</p>
<p>Bhagavān: We have also economic position.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Everything, I have explained. Now our socialist idea is: God is the father of all living beings. And whatever there is on the surface of the globe, on the sea, on the sky, everything belongs to God. And all the sons of God has equal right to enjoy it. But nobody... (aside:) He is finished? But nobody is allowed to take more than he requires. If one takes more than he requires, he's to be punished. This is our socialist idea. As we think all living entities sons of God, therefore even a lizard in my room should not starve.</p>
<p>Bhagavān: He should not starve is the point.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Yes.</p>
<p>Bhagavān: He should not be allowed to go hungry.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Even a snake is there, he should not also starve. He must have food. We do not support such rascal philosophy that you give food to the man, and send the animals to the slaughterhouse. We do not support this rascaldom, our philosophy is: as human being has got the right to take share of God's property and live, similarly all other living entities, they have got right.</p>
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