View source for What is the difference between the jiva and soul? Is it good to learn the differences and understand the depth of these things?

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{{terms|"Is it good to learn the differences and understand the depth of these things"|"What is the difference between the jiva and soul"}}
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[[Category:Questions asked to Srila Prabhupada]]
[[Category:Date 1972]]
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<div id="Conversations_and_Morning_Walks" class="section" sec_index="5" parent="compilation" text="Conversations and Morning Walks"><h2>Conversations and Morning Walks</h2>
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<div id="1972_Conversations_and_Morning_Walks" class="sub_section" sec_index="5" parent="Conversations_and_Morning_Walks" text="1972 Conversations and Morning Walks"><h3>1972 Conversations and Morning Walks</h3>
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<div id="ConversationwithBajajandBhusanSeptember111972ArlingtonTexasAtTheirHome_0" class="quote" parent="1972_Conversations_and_Morning_Walks" book="Con" index="39" link="Conversation with Bajaj and Bhusan -- September 11, 1972, Arlington, Texas, At Their Home" link_text="Conversation with Bajaj and Bhusan -- September 11, 1972, Arlington, Texas, At Their Home">
<div class="heading">Yes. If you do not learn, then you are darkness. Just like mamaivāṁśo. Just like your finger is the part of your body, similarly, you are part of the body of Kṛṣṇa. Now you have to learn. If you are part, just like finger is the part of my body... What is the duty of the finger?
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<span class="link">[[Vanisource:Conversation with Bajaj and Bhusan -- September 11, 1972, Arlington, Texas, At Their Home|Conversation with Bajaj and Bhusan -- September 11, 1972, Arlington, Texas, At Their Home]]: </span><div class="text"><p style="display: inline;">Guest (2): How about love between people? Just like this... Is that bondage also?</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Yes, that is also bondage. Suppose you love your countrymen. So you want to remain a faithful national, so you will get your birth again in this country or that country, as you like. (doorbell rings) So either you get your birth in India or in America, it doesn't matter. You are bound up by the laws of nature. It is not that Americans do not die, only Indians die. Everyone dies. So that is also bondage.</p>
<p>Guest (1): How about love towards relatives? They say, "Love your parents," or "Love your wife and children." Isn't that also bondage?</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Yes.</p>
<p>Guest (1): Does that mean you should not love your parents?</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: No, there is no love in the material world. You love somebody with some personal interest. So that is not love. Everyone loves. To be frank enough, a wife loves husband so long he is nicely earning, and the husband loves the wife so long she is beautiful. That's all. This is the love. It is not love. It is lust. Love is different thing.</p>
<p>Guest (1): How about serving the parents?</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: First of all you try to understand one point. Don't jump like that. The same thing is applicable to parents and everything. There is no love in this world. That is illusion.</p>
<p>Guest (2): Is it like service to parents without expecting anything from them because they have raised you, they have...?</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Yes, that is your duty.</p>
<p>Guest (2): Yes, duty.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: That's your duty. Just like to... I do not say that don't love your wife and don't love your parents. But I am just explaining the real situation.</p>
<p>Guest (2): I may be forgiven for diverting from the topic here. In Twelfth Chapter when Lord says, mamaivāṁśo jīva-loke jīva-bhūtaḥ sanātanaḥ... ([[Vanisource:BG 15.7|BG 15.7]]).</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: That is Fifteenth Chapter.</p>
<p>Guest (2): Fifteenth, yes. What is the difference between the jīva and soul? Is it good to learn the differences and understand the depth of these things?</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Yes. If you do not learn, then you are darkness. Just like mamaivāṁśo. Just like your finger is the part of your body, similarly, you are part of the body of Kṛṣṇa. Now you have to learn. If you are part, just like finger is the part of my body... What is the duty of the finger?</p>
<p>Guest (2): To serve body.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: That's all. The finger, so long it is serving my body like this, like this, it is in real condition, real, healthy condition. And if it is painful—it cannot serve—then it is not in healthy condition. So therefore any living entity who is not serving Kṛṣṇa, he is not in healthy condition. He is in māyā. Anyone who is not in Kṛṣṇa's service, he is in māyā. That is, Kṛṣṇa says,</p>
:mamaivāṁśo jīva-loke
:jīva-bhūtaḥ sanātanaḥ
:manaḥ-ṣaṣṭhānīndriyāṇi
:prakṛti-sthāni karṣati
:([[Vanisource:BG 15.7|BG 15.7]])
<p>He is struggling hard within this material nature because he is not serving Kṛṣṇa. Therefore his punishment is to struggle hard in different species of life. There are 8,400,000 species of life, and he is transmigrating but becoming happy this way or that way, that way, that way. Just like you have come to America to become happy. Is it not? Otherwise why you left? Similarly, we are transmigrating from one country to another, one planet to another, one body to another, searching after happy, happiness. That is struggle for existence. So Kṛṣṇa says, "They are My part and parcel. Instead of serving Me, they are serving their mind and senses." Manaḥ-ṣaṣṭhānīndriyāṇi prakṛti-sthāni karṣati ([[Vanisource:BG 15.7|BG 15.7]]). So long we serve our senses and mind we remain in this material world, prakṛti-sthāni. And as soon as we revive our real consciousness, Kṛṣṇa consciousness—we serve Kṛṣṇa—that is liberation. Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja ([[Vanisource:BG 18.66|BG 18.66]]). That is the ultimate instruction. So instead of serving the senses, kāmādīnāṁ kati na katidhā, just like serving the country, serving the family, something, the wife, and serving the husband, serving the father—all the services are different phases of kāma. Kāmādīnāṁ kati na katidhā pālitā durnideśāḥ. So at the present moment we are serving our senses. When the sense service will be transferred to Kṛṣṇa, that is liberation. And this is bondage.</p>
<p>Guest (2): Just now you said, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja ([[Vanisource:BG 18.66|BG 18.66]]). This śaraṇaṁ vraja, could you just enlighten...</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Śaraṇaṁ vraja—you just surrender. Whatever you say...</p>
<p>Guest (2): In daily life, I mean, like our practical life, how śaraṇāgati could be...?</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Yes, śaraṇāgati. Just like Arjuna. Arjuna was hesitating to fight but when he surrendered to Kṛṣṇa he fought.</p>
<p>Guest (2): He was lucky. Lord Kṛṣṇa was right there with him.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: So Lord Kṛṣṇa's instruction is there. That is Lord Kṛṣṇa. There is no difference between Lord Kṛṣṇa and His instruction. He is absolute. Just like these boys. They are serving Kṛṣṇa. Lord Kṛṣṇa is not present. Lord Kṛṣṇa is present but you do not know how He is present. Lord Kṛṣṇa is present by His name, Hare Kṛṣṇa. This Kṛṣṇa and the person Kṛṣṇa is not different. That you do not know. You are thinking Kṛṣṇa is gone, but Kṛṣṇa is present by His instruction, by His name, by His form, by His quality, by His pastime, because He is absolute. Kṛṣṇa is never absent. Simply we have to see, we have to make our eyes to see Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is always present. Premāñjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena santaḥ sadaiva hṛdayeṣu vilokayanti (Bs. 5.38). Those who are saintly person, they are seeing twenty-four hours, every minute, Kṛṣṇa. Hṛdayeṣu vilokayanti. How? Premāñjana-cchurita. When there is love of Kṛṣṇa. Just like ordinarily, if you love somebody, you will find him everywhere. So you have to develop your love for Kṛṣṇa; then Kṛṣṇa will be seen. Svayam eva sphuraty adaḥ. Just like sun. You cannot see sun at night, but when sun becomes revealed before you you can see sun and yourself and the whole world. Similarly, when Kṛṣṇa will reveal, being pleased with your service and love, you will see Kṛṣṇa, you will see yourself, you will see the whole world. So simply you have to... Just like one man is suffering from cataract. So by surgical operation make the eyes free from the cataract disease—he will see everything. Similarly, the cataract of your present eyes, material eyes, can be, I mean to say, relieved by Kṛṣṇa prema. Then you will see Kṛṣṇa. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu recommended, premā pum-artho mahān. If anything has to be achieved within this world, that is Kṛṣṇa prema. That we should engage our life, how to achieve Kṛṣṇa prema. But we are not interested in Kṛṣṇa prema. So that is illusion. Human life is meant for achieving that stage, Kṛṣṇa prema, love of Kṛṣṇa. Then life is successful.</p>
:sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo
:yato bhaktir adhokṣaje
:ahaituky apratihatā
:yayātmā suprasīdati
:([[Vanisource:SB 1.2.6|SB 1.2.6]])
<p>That is wanted. Therefore this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is meant for invoking the dormant love for Kṛṣṇa that is there in everyone. Just like four or five years ago these boys, they did not know what is Kṛṣṇa. And now their countrymen is surprised: "How these boys are after Kṛṣṇa, mad after Kṛṣṇa?" That means love of Kṛṣṇa was there. It has simply be invoked. In the Caitanya-caritāmṛta,</p>
:nitya-siddha kṛṣṇa prema 'sādhya' kabhu naya
:śravaṇādi-śuddha-citte karaye udaya
:(Cc. madhya 22.107)
<p>The Kṛṣṇa prema, love of Kṛṣṇa, is within everyone. That love is being expressed in so many ways. Actually that is love for Kṛṣṇa. So when one invokes that love in proper condition, then he loves Kṛṣṇa and loves everyone. Here the so-called love is for some purpose. Just like we are... I have come to this country. My purpose is not to get some money from them. Because I think, "My Guru Mahārāja ordered that 'You go to the Western countries,' " so I have come to the Western countries to give them Kṛṣṇa. And because they, everyone has Kṛṣṇa prema, they are accepting it. You must be favorable. But if you don't accept, it is impossible to give you. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja: ([[Vanisource:BG 18.66|BG 18.66]]) "You do." Kṛṣṇa can force him but He is not forcing. Kṛṣṇa is asking Arjuna, "Whatever..." Yathecchasi tathā kuru ([[Vanisource:BG 18.63|BG 18.63]]), "Whatever you like, you can do." He does not force anyone because the living entity, part and parcel of God, he has got independence. So Kṛṣṇa does not touch the independence of the living entity. He advises, "You do this. If you do this, then you will be saved." But if you do not do this, then Kṛṣṇa is not responsible. You are responsible. Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja ([[Vanisource:BG 18.66|BG 18.66]]). So if you do that—you take Kṛṣṇa's advice—then you are saved. But if you do not that, then you take your own responsibility. You travel in this cycle of birth and death and wander in different species of life, different planets. So that is your responsibility. Kṛṣṇa comes down to instruct you this philosophy, this fact. Now it is up to you to accept or not to ac... You have got the independence. Ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi mā śucaḥ ([[Vanisource:BG 18.66|BG 18.66]]). This is the instruction of Kṛṣṇa. Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru ([[Vanisource:BG 18.65|BG 18.65]]). Janma karma ca me divyam evaṁ yo vetti tattvataḥ, tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti... ([[Vanisource:BG 4.9|BG 4.9]]). Mām upetya punar janma duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam, nāpnuvanti mahātmānaḥ saṁsiddhiṁ paramāṁ gataḥ ([[Vanisource:BG 8.15|BG 8.15]]). That is the highest perfection; you go back to Kṛṣṇa. If you don't go, that is your choice.</p>
<p>Guest (2): What is this greatness, that, to know the divinity when Lord Kṛṣṇa says that "Those who know that I am divine and..." Janma karma ca me divyam ([[Vanisource:BG 4.9|BG 4.9]]). How... What is the real meaning of knowing it, I mean. I read it ten times...</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: That is also: tad viddhi praṇipātena paripraśnena sevayā ([[Vanisource:BG 4.34|BG 4.34]]). You find out somebody who can instruct you. But you find out-praṇipāta. You surrender, not with challenge. And sevā. And then you ask him and you know it. But if you have no praṇipāta, no sevā, simply challenging spirit, you'll never know it. That is not the process. If you want to know, then you must find out somebody where you can surrender. And you must... Surrender means you must render service to him, and then you can ask him and he'll give you. Upadekṣyanti te jñānaṁ jñāninas tattva-darśinaḥ. That is the process. If you are serious to know, then you find out somebody where you can surrender. Because Kṛṣṇa also wants surrender, so you have to surrender to His representative. Then you will know.</p>
<p>Guest (2): And can one not directly surrender to Kṛṣṇa through his own feelings and heart and...?</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: No. No, that is not the process. Caitanya Mahāprabhu teaches, gopī-bhartuḥ pada-kamalayor dāsa-dāsānudāsaḥ ([[Vanisource:CC Madhya 13.80|CC Madhya 13.80]]). He wants to become the servant of the servant of the servant of the servant of the servant of Kṛṣṇa. That is the process. If you want to know Kṛṣṇa directly it is not possible. Otherwise why Kṛṣṇa says, tad viddhi praṇipātena paripraśnena sevayā ([[Vanisource:BG 4.34|BG 4.34]])? And how you can approach Kṛṣṇa?</p>
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