View source for Sometimes they say, Srila Prabhupada, that if everybody chants Hare Krsna, what shape would the world be in?

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[[Category:Questions asked to Srila Prabhupada]]
[[Category:Questions asked to SP... 1975]]
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<div id="Conversations_and_Morning_Walks" class="section" sec_index="5" parent="compilation" text="Conversations and Morning Walks"><h2>Conversations and Morning Walks</h2>
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<div id="1975_Conversations_and_Morning_Walks" class="sub_section" sec_index="8" parent="Conversations_and_Morning_Walks" text="1975 Conversations and Morning Walks"><h3>1975 Conversations and Morning Walks</h3>
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<div id="MorningWalkMay101975Perth_0" class="quote" parent="1975_Conversations_and_Morning_Walks" book="Con" index="65" link="Morning Walk -- May 10, 1975, Perth" link_text="Morning Walk -- May 10, 1975, Perth">
<div class="heading">They would get everything, and without any labor. Just see our example.
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<span class="link">[[Vanisource:Morning Walk -- May 10, 1975, Perth|Morning Walk -- May 10, 1975, Perth]]: </span><div class="text"><p style="display: inline;">Jayadharma: Some people say that trees may be very happy. How do we know?</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: If you want to become happy like that, be. Stand up. Stand up on the bench and laugh—be happy. (laughter)</p>
<p>Amogha: But they say we are humans; we can enjoy.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: What enjoy?</p>
<p>Amogha: Television, cinema, dancing...</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Yes, the dogs also dance and enjoy. The monkeys also dance and enjoy.</p>
<p>Paramahaṁsa: But these animals, they're not intelligent enough to enjoy the higher...</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: They are intelligent. Otherwise when the dog jumps here, and goes to one man and come here-he's enjoying. It is enjoyment. So you are doing like that.</p>
<p>Amogha: But we cook very nice food to eat.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: They also eat, according to their taste. The hogs, they eat stool and they enjoy it. So, according to our calculation you are eating stool—the meat. And you are thinking you are enjoying, as the hog's thinking, that's all. It is a question of standard of enjoyment. Otherwise, enjoyment is there in every living sphere. (In car)</p>
<p>Amogha: It sounds very nice. If we chant Hare Kṛṣṇa we can feel unlimited pleasure.</p>
<p>Paramahaṁsa: It sounds too simple to be true.</p>
<p>Amogha: But maybe we can in addition to this unlimited pleasure, just to make sure we don't lose out on anything, maybe we can also enjoy all these other pleasures.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Yes, you (indistinct) motorcar and chant. You are working hard like an ass to get these motorcars. You'll get these by chanting.</p>
<p>Gaṇeśa: Sometimes they say, Śrīla Prabhupāda, that if everybody chants Hare Kṛṣṇa, what shape would the world be in?</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: They would get everything, and without any labor. Just see our example.</p>
<p>Amogha: But they say that the only reason you are... Hare Kṛṣṇa movement is existing is because we are working and giving you the money.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: You must work. Because we are superior, you must work under us. (laughter) That will give you actually happiness. (indistinct) That is your duty. You are not carrying out your duty, then you will suffer. You work under our direction, you'll be happy.</p>
<p>Amogha: Then they say that every religion says the same thing, that if you follow them, then you will be happy. But they are all teaching differently. So...</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: That's all right. Now try this. This is the latest. (laughter) You are after latest. This is the latest.</p>
<p>Jayadharma: Sometimes people may say, Śrīla Prabhupāda, that we're just trying to introduce the old caste system from India that never worked anyway.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: That caste system is already there. We are also..., we have got poor class, rich class. The Communists, they have also worker class, manager class, although the Communists against class system. But I have seen, they have made this classification: worker class, manager class. Why do you make this? That is efficiency. Leader class, follower class. Otherwise there will be chaos. This is natural.</p>
<p>Amogha: The divisions of work are naturally there. You can't avoid them.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Even in your body there is class. The head class, the arm class, the belly class, the leg class. They are working differently for benefit of the whole body. That is natural. If you avoid and if you simply keep the leg, then it will be chaotic condition. Or even if you keep the head only, that will not stand. There must be four. That is natural. That is the Vedic mantra it is said—you are reading the other day—the brāhmaṇas, they came out of the mouth. The kṣatriyas, they came out of the arms. The vaiśyas, they came out of the belt. And the śūdras, they came out of the legs. This is mantra. How you can avoid it? Kṛṣṇa says, "It is My creation. How you can avoid it?" You cannot avoid anything which is created by Kṛṣṇa. Just like sunshine. It is created by Kṛṣṇa. You cannot say, "No, no. I don't want sunshine." That is foolishness. If you want to avoid, then you'll suffer. The sunshine is there, and if you go into the dark place, and cover yourself, then the sunshine is outside, that's all. The sun may not suffer—you'll suffer. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa says that "This caste system is created by Me." If you don't accept it, then you'll suffer. Kṛṣṇa will not suffer. (leaves car) ...introducing the caste system, we are introducing a system which, you follow, you'll be happy. Not caste system. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break) (in room:)</p>
<p>Jayadharma: They say in India that the caste system apparently is not working.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Hm?</p>
<p>Amogha: Shall I answer?</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Mm.</p>
<p>Amogha: But at present the caste system in India isn't actually representative of the original varṇāśrama dharma system. The original system was a cooperation, organized cooperation between four kinds of men which are naturally there in society. Just like now we can see that some people are working as laborers, some people are working as merchants, and some people politicians and lawyers, some are teachers. Originally they were organized so that the priests, or priestly order, were benefiting everyone by their teaching. And so that they could fully concentrate on that, they were not engaged in working for food and money. But what happened in this age, was that the higher caste became fallen, and they misused their high position, and instead of helping everyone by their teaching, they misused the position, or exploited the position, simply for selfish ends, so there became a conflict between the...</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Vested interest.</p>
<p>Amogha: Vested interest. Yes. So then there was conflict between the lower and the higher and it broke down. So what we're teaching is not actually the caste system as it is now or it was recently, but...</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: You have also caste system in the Western countries. You are not without caste system. There is a priestly class. So there are politicians, there are industrialists, merchants, and ordinary laborer. Where is...? How you can say there is no caste system in your country?</p>
<p>Jayadharma: But there may be the clergymen and the mercantile class and the soldiers and the laborers, in this particular society, but this society is breaking away from that because they are not recognizing the clergy class of men because nobody is going to church, nor is anybody giving any money to the church these days. This is why many churches...</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: No, no. First of all think, that you say that your charge is "They are introducing caste system." But the Hindu caste system is already there. How do you say that I am introducing? That is my point.</p>
<p>Jayadharma: That is my foolishness.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: (laughing lightly) You cannot say that I have introduced it. It is already there. As it is there in India, it is also everywhere. It may be under different names. The four classes are already there, everywhere. The... Even in Muslim, they have also got the (indistinct), what is called, mohallas, priestly class. They have got. We are introducing the systematic caste system, but caste system is already there, everywhere. Maybe under different names. And it is necessary. The caste system is there as a matter of necessity. You cannot abolish it. But it is now existing in a deformed manner. People should be systematic and organized. That we are trying to. Not that a new thing we are trying to introduce. It is already there. Our proposition is that "You priestly class, you must act exactly as a priest-ideal priest. You are a drunkard, you are woman-hunter, you are doing everything nonsense, and at the same time you are passing on as priest—this should be stopped." This should be stopped. The priestly class, or the brāhmaṇas, they should be trained up to become truthful, how to control mind, how to control senses, and tolerant, and very learned, knowing God also—these things are required. They should be the first-class, ideal men. Similarly, the kṣatriyas, they must be fearless; they must be very boldly, face fighting the enemies; they must have the capacity to govern nicely so that people will not have any complaint against the government. In this way they should be trained up. And the mercantile class of man, they should produce enough food grains, not motor tires. That is śūdra's business—artisans—that is śūdra. The vaiśyas' business is first to see that in the country there is enough food for eating—both for the human being and the animals. The human being should not complain that there is no sufficient food grains, therefore they're eating flesh. No. Flesh is not for human being. They should live on food grains. Just like dahl. Dahl is as good as meat. It is from food grain. And there is sufficient varieties of dahl they can eat. They can make so many preparations, palatable preparations. Why are the prices of food grains increasing? Because there is shortage. If there is enough food, the price will automatically decrease, because everyone want to sell. So, the price will decrease, naturally. It will be so lavishly available that you can give food grains even to the animals, like cows and goats and other so many animals. Let them eat. That is the business of the vaiśya man. And go-rakṣya. Another business is to protect the cows, and to give them food nicely so the cows will give enough milk. And from milk, you know, so many nice preparations, all full of vitamins. So why they should be killed? You are killing; the blood is not utilized, you are taking the flesh. But flesh is transformation of the blood. And milk is also transformation of the blood. So if you take, just like channa, it is as good as flesh. By taste, by benefit—as good as. So why if you can take the flesh and blood in a human way-blood is transformed into milk, and from milk there are so many good preparations-ghee, yoghurt, burfi, channa, so many preparations are available. This panir, channa, and let the animal live peacefully. Why are you cutting his throat? You require some benefit from the animal. Take this benefit. Why should you kill? If he can live and give better service, then why shall I try to kill? What is this human civilization? Is that human civilization, that I am taking service from you, and I am cutting your throat? Is that humanity? What is the answer?</p>
<p>Jayadharma: No, it's animal civilization.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Anyone who takes milk... Everyone takes milk. The cow is the mother. Mother gives milk. And mother, when she cannot supply milk, mother should be cut up. Is that a very good philosophy? Is it human philosophy? What is the answer? But if you say that somebody wants to, say in your country majority they want to eat meat. So, if you put that argument, then you can eat some lower animals. You can eat the pigs. You are eating also, pigs. Not in a massive scale. Massive scale—if you are Christian you should follow your religious scripture: "Thou shall not kill!" This should be the principle. But if you are a rākṣasa, if you want to eat meat, then at least don't kill the cows. You can eat other, insignificant animals. You are eating also. You are eating everything. Except the moving cars, you are eating all the moving animals. The car also moves, but you cannot eat. Otherwise you are killing everything. You have become so civilized rascal that your business is to kill other animals and eat. You are so civilized. You are still in the crude form of human being, just like in the jungles, the aborigines, the Africans, they do not know how to develop civilization—crude methods, eating the animals. That also, they are not so uncivilized that they keep slaughterhouses. You are so uncivilized that you are keeping slaughterhouses, regularly. These Africans and other jungle people they eat meat, but they directly kill. They have no such civilization as to maintain a slaughterhouse. The tigers eat meat, but they do not keep a slaughterhouse. And you are civilized. You are keeping slaughterhouse. Why should you keep? The government shouldn't allow you to keep slaughterhouses. If anyone wants to eat meat, let them eat like tigers and others. Individually, kill one animal—a lower animal, not cows. This should be the government law. You can kill one insignificant animal, like pigs or goats. It has not very much use. You kill it in your home, before your children and family, and eat. The government may not have any objection. But why should you maintain slaughterhouses? So the agriculturist and the mercantile men, they should produce enough food, give protection to the cows, and if there is excess, sell it. Where there is not enough food grain produced you can make business. That is the instruction given in Bhagavad-gītā, kṛṣi-go-rakṣya vāṇijyam ([[Vanisource:BG 18.44|BG 18.44]]). That is really needed. Nobody is interested. Everyone comes to the city, the mercantile class. They are doing business, big, big skyscraper building, and they have artificial money, paper. And instead of eating food grains they are maintaining slaughterhouses. This is not good civilization. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)</p>
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