View source for So where will we go tomorrow if we go (you said you want to make an experiment, so let us make an experiment with this hired bullock cart…)?

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[[Category:Questions asked to Srila Prabhupada]]
[[Category:Questions asked to SP... 1977]]
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<div id="Conversations_and_Morning_Walks" class="section" sec_index="5" parent="compilation" text="Conversations and Morning Walks"><h2>Conversations and Morning Walks</h2>
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<div id="1977_Conversations_and_Morning_Walks" class="sub_section" sec_index="10" parent="Conversations_and_Morning_Walks" text="1977 Conversations and Morning Walks"><h3>1977 Conversations and Morning Walks</h3>
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<div id="RoomConversationNovember101977Vrndavana_0" class="quote" parent="1977_Conversations_and_Morning_Walks" book="Con" index="291" link="Room Conversation -- November 10, 1977, Vrndavana" link_text="Room Conversation -- November 10, 1977, Vrndavana">
<div class="heading">Govardhana?
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<span class="link">[[Vanisource:Room Conversation -- November 10, 1977, Vrndavana|Room Conversation -- November 10, 1977, Vrndavana]]: </span><div class="text"><p style="display: inline;">Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So, Śrīla Prabhupāda, we can have kīrtana until Kṛṣṇa dāsa comes. Okay. (kīrtana) Lokanātha is here, over there, Śrīla...</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: So? Where did you go?</p>
<p>Lokanātha: I went to Mathurā. I went first to Vṛndāvana and looked for the carts. They were not very good kind. They were made for rough loads. So I went to Mathurā and spoke to one farmer. He had a fairly big size cart and two strong bullocks, and he asked for a hundred rupees. He wouldn't come down. So ultimately I agreed for a hundred rupees. And he will reach tonight at eleven o'clock. I asked him to start immediately, but they have pūjā—as we have go-pūjā, they also have oxen pūjā today—so he will only reach at eleven o'clock, and he will be with us all day long tomorrow. I had to give him one day or maximum...</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: So what do you think?</p>
<p>Lokanātha: Of what?</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: How many carts you have?</p>
<p>Lokanātha: I got just one today, one for you, and those who serve you, they could also sit besides you in the cart, and the rest could do kīrtana around the bullock cart, and the whole unit, bullock cart and saṅkīrtana group, will move together.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: So what we have to pay?</p>
<p>Lokanātha: We'll pay hundred rupees, one day. Of course, you want to have it for all the time. Best thing is to purchase a set of bullocks, two bullocks, and a cart.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: You have got experience.</p>
<p>Lokanātha: Yes.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: So what is better?</p>
<p>Lokanātha: Well, depends on whether we like to use it for longer time. Then we should purchase. If it is just for a few days, best thing is to hire.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Hundreds rupees and food.</p>
<p>Lokanātha: No. He has his food for himself and bullocks. So that's for the cart, two bullocks and the driver.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: That's nice.</p>
<p>Lokanātha: Yes. This is what they earn for living. Usually they carry different loads from place to another place. Each trip they take twenty rupees, thirty rupees, fifty rupees, according to distance and the load they carry. But it's expensive to keep it for many days.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: No. If it is inconvenient, we may not keep.</p>
<p>Lokanātha: If it is convenient?</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Then we shall keep.</p>
<p>Lokanātha: So we'll hire first and see how it goes, works. And if you think it is nice, or comfortable, all right with you, then we can purchase.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: So how many we are going?</p>
<p>Lokanātha: Tamāla Kṛṣṇa Mahārāja...</p>
<p>Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: How many what?</p>
<p>Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: How many will be going?</p>
<p>Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, all the devotees want to go, Śrīla Prabhupāda.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Oh, that's nice.</p>
<p>Haṁsadūta: That's nice?</p>
<p>Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: So how many carts you require?</p>
<p>Pañca-draviḍa: Just one.</p>
<p>Lokanātha: One for now. We also had a meeting, and we were discussing that if we go around just in Vṛndāvana, all will go. But if we keep going from holy place to holy place, then we have to decide whether everyone goes or just a few of us go.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: So you are hiring for how many days?</p>
<p>Lokanātha: This is only for one day it is hired now, but we could continue to hire the same cart for several more days by paying extra money.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Hm. Tamāla Kṛṣṇa?</p>
<p>Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Our experiment...</p>
<p>Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It certainly is an experiment. Of course, we always like experiments to be successful.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Yes. Where he'll go?</p>
<p>Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What, Śrīla Prabhupāda? Where will we go? We thought tomorrow to go around the parikrama path.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Which parikrama path?</p>
<p>Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Vṛndāvana parikrama.</p>
<p>Lokanātha: Does a cart go?</p>
<p>Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I've never tried it with a cart. Smara-hari, you say a cart couldn't go?</p>
<p>Lokanātha: No, he says it cannot go.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Hm?</p>
<p>Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Smara-hari, who is familiar with the parikrama path, says that a bullock cart would not be able to pass in many of the places.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Then?</p>
<p>Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, then that means we can't do a Vṛndāvana parikrama.</p>
<p>Smara-hari: For example in Keśī-ghāṭa there's no...</p>
<p>Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He's experienced. He says...</p>
<p>Lokanātha: This Vṛndāvana parikrama is mainly for walking and circumambulating. It's not meant for going in a vehicle, motor vehicle or bullock cart.</p>
<p>Haṁsadūta: Suppose we would go to Keśī-ghāṭa or one of the important temples like Govindajī.</p>
<p>Lokanātha: Those are seven temples.</p>
<p>Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, another possibility is to go to the places where the main temples are, Śrīla Prabhupāda, the Gosvāmīs' temples.</p>
<p>Haṁsadūta: Tomorrow is Govardhana-pūjā, and a procession through the city of Vṛndāvana would be very ecstatic.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Hm.</p>
<p>Pañca-draviḍa: One parade.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Others will come also.</p>
<p>Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, yeah, well, if we go through Vṛndāvana, probably many people will come.</p>
<p>Haṁsadūta: Then we could also get some experience, because if we were, for example, to go to Govardhana, we would have to pass over similar roads.</p>
<p>Lokanātha: This cart does not have cover, Śrīla Prabhupāda. This bullock cart which I hired has no cover on the top.</p>
<p>Haṁsadūta: So we have to cover it.</p>
<p>Bhakti-caru: Lokanātha Swami, you apparently didn't get one question of Prabhupāda. He asked what do you think about this trip. You didn't answer that. You have some experience with bullock carts. What do you think? In this condition Śrīla Prabhupāda will withstand the trip? You know in what condition Prabhupāda is in now.</p>
<p>Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Bullock cart are usually very bumpy.</p>
<p>Devotee: This has rubber tires.</p>
<p>Lokanātha: If these roads are not bad, and the cart has tire wheels...</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Yes?</p>
<p>Lokanātha: So we're discussing bumping, so won't be much bumping on the cart. Also, we always could go slow. If Prabhupāda wants to make an experiment, we could make one day...</p>
<p>Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: A few hours.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: I am thinking I am lying here... (break)</p>
<p>Lokanātha: ...should ride in very nice carts, a chariot.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: No, (indistinct). (laughter)</p>
<p>Lokanātha: I saw one in Maharastra. In Poona. Yes.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Hm. You can purchase immediately. (laughter)</p>
<p>Lokanātha: We'll have to design it. They're not ready-made like that. The kind which we want, the pull-on kind, with cover on top and nice arrangements, we have to design it and order it. Get it made. There's a place called Meerut, north of Delhi...</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Therefore I sent you. You have got already experience.</p>
<p>Lokanātha: You said you want to make an experiment, so let us make an experiment with this hired bullock cart, and in few days' time...</p>
<p>Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So where will we go tomorrow if we go?</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Govardhana?</p>
<p>Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Govardhana.</p>
<p>Pañca-draviḍa: That's very far. We went on one parade three years ago in Vṛndāvana, with elephants, that Your Divine Grace went. Maybe we could go on that same route.</p>
<p>Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Govardhana will take about six hours to reach there.</p>
<p>Lokanātha: No, how many kilometers is that?</p>
<p>Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, it's very far.</p>
<p>Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Twenty-eight to thirty kilometers.</p>
<p>Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: It takes one hour by car.</p>
<p>Lokanātha: Take five kilometers an hour.</p>
<p>Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's six hours to get there. Six hours to get there, and then three hours around Govardhana. Nine hours.</p>
<p>Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: And six hours back.</p>
<p>Pañca-draviḍa: And the bulls might have to rest.</p>
<p>Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You have to rest the bulls, don't you?</p>
<p>Pañca-draviḍa: There's one route we went on in Vṛndāvana, on a parade. Shorter route. First time, as an experiment, we could go a shorter distance.</p>
<p>Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's quite a big experiment to make, going to Govardhana the first day, Śrīla Prabhupāda. You feel confident that you can travel nine hours in a row on a bullock cart?</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: I am sleeping here.</p>
<p>Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What, Śrīla Prabhupāda?</p>
<p>Lokanātha: He says he's sleeping here.</p>
<p>Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But this is not a bullock cart.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: The same thing.</p>
<p>Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The same thing?</p>
<p>Jayādvaita: One thing is that in the Gosvāmī temples they have govardhana-śilā. That's also Govardhana.</p>
<p>Haṁsadūta: Śrīla Prabhupāda? The main concern of the devotees is that whether you will be able to survive such an experiment. But before, you said that you felt that such a parikrama would actually cure you. You said that. So your vision is transcendental, because you are the spiritual master. You're a pure devotee of Kṛṣṇa. So if you say that it will cure you and that it will be beneficial for you, then we have to carry out that..., whatever you desire. We do not know. We're just on the mundane platform.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: One-day experiment. It is for one day?</p>
<p>Lokanātha: We have hired it for one day.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Rest assured. I will not die in one day.</p>
<p>Haṁsadūta: So we should go to Govardhana? Because tomorrow is Govardhana-pūjā.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Yes. And we shall make our cooking there and...</p>
<p>Lokanātha: We should start early.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: He has got experience. Dig the ground and make our foodstuff. Very good picnic.</p>
<p>Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Very good picnic.</p>
<p>Haṁsadūta: If we go to Govardhana, we would take the prasādam that was prepared here and bring it there, so that many people can take.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: I have no objection.</p>
<p>Lokanātha: Or otherwise we can make real picnic. We could collect some grains there from door to door and cook some khicuṛi there.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: That will be very nice.</p>
<p>Guṇārṇava: There are already many thousands and thousands of people there, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Perhaps it will take a long time to get there because of traffic. I was in Mathurā today. Every ten minutes buses and ṭāṅgās and so many kinds of vehicles were going to Govardhana. There are many, many thousands of people there today.</p>
<p>Pañca-draviḍa: Besides that, the devotees would have to walk nine hours in the sun.</p>
<p>Guṇārṇava: Perhaps the road will be very busy tomorrow, Śrīla Prabhupāda.</p>
<p>Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Whew!</p>
<p>Haṁsadūta: Can't walk?</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: No, let them take their time. They do that. It is very nice picnic.</p>
<p>Lokanātha: From my village there is this pilgrimage called Pandarpur. This is sixty miles. And still, old men, they just travel, walk. Every ekādaśī they go.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Just see.</p>
<p>Lokanātha: Every ekādaśī they go to Pandarpur, have darśana of Charukmari(?), and return on foot.</p>
<p>Haṁsadūta: You have assured us that in one day you're not going to die, and you want to make this experiment, so we should do it.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.</p>
<p>Haṁsadūta: We'll do it with great enthusiasm. Your Divine Grace is infallible. So if you say that it will help and cure you, then that must be a fact. You've never been wrong about anything, Prabhupāda, so you must be right this time also.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: So let us make experiment. Don't hesitate.</p>
<p>Pañca-draviḍa: So we can fix up the cart tonight.</p>
<p>Haṁsadūta: Where's the cart? Outside?</p>
<p>Pañca-draviḍa: It's coming.</p>
<p>Lokanātha: It will reach at eleven o'clock here. So I suggest right after maṅgala-ārati we'll go, or we should start.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: As far as possible, take me in a comfortable position. That's all. As far as possible.</p>
<p>Svarūpa Dāmodara: Comfortable position.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: That...</p>
<p>Pañca-draviḍa: Arrange one bed on the cart. This mattress can go in nice arrangement.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Yes.</p>
<p>Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This is not the best. There is other mattresses that are as good or better than this. The temple has many gadis. We'll get them.</p>
<p>Pañca-draviḍa: We can make nice arrangement. This will purify Govardhana Hill, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Tīrthas become purified by the presence of...</p>
<p>Lokanātha: Another tīrtha.</p>
<p>Pañca-draviḍa: Yes. Prabhupāda will go to the tīrtha.</p>
<p>Jagadīśa: You're a Vaiṣṇava like Arjuna and Hanumān, Śrīla Prabhupāda.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Tomorrow is a great festival.</p>
<p>Lokanātha: Tomorrow is Govardhana-pūjā festival.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Yes. We are in Vṛndāvana, and we shall not take part? We must take part.</p>
<p>Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Hm. We are in Vṛndāvana and we are not taking part. We must take part.</p>
<p>Pañca-draviḍa: So we should all go to Govardhana?</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Why not? Who is here?</p>
<p>Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: About thirty or forty devotees, Śrīla Prabhupāda.</p>
<p>Svarūpa Dāmodara: We're just like puppets, Śrīla Prabhupāda. We are all unfit to make any decision. Whatever Your Divine Grace instructs us to do, we just follow.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: So, Lokanātha, what do you say?</p>
<p>Svarūpa Dāmodara: What do you say, Lokanātha Mahārāja?</p>
<p>Lokanātha: We should make experiment to please you.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: That's nice.</p>
<p>Lokanātha: That will be ever-new experience for us also.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Yes.</p>
<p>Jayapatākā: It will be historic. Many people have been invited to the temple here. Many people have been invited to attend the function here at the mandira.</p>
<p>Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Thousands of people are expected to come tomorrow.</p>
<p>Pañca-draviḍa: That can also go on.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: When they have invited?</p>
<p>Svarūpa Dāmodara: To Kṛṣṇa-Balarāma temple, Śrīla Prabhupāda.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: When?</p>
<p>Svarūpa Dāmodara: Tomorrow.</p>
<p>Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "What time?" he's asking.</p>
<p>Bhavānanda: At 11 a.m.</p>
<p>Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: At around noontime, Śrīla Prabhupāda.</p>
<p>Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: There's a big feast at one o'clock.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: So half of our men may come back.</p>
<p>Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Half of the men may come, and half should stay. All the Vṛndāvana devotees can stay. All the visiting devotees should go. All right, we'll make that division, Śrīla Prabhupāda.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Keep that palanquin.</p>
<p>Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Keep the palanquin on the cart?</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Cart?</p>
<p>Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What, Śrīla Prabhupāda?</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Palanquin.</p>
<p>Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Where should we keep it? With us on the cart?</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Carry it.</p>
<p>Haṁsadūta: Bring it along.</p>
<p>Pañca-draviḍa: We'll bring it along. (discussion of how to do this)</p>
<p>Svarūpa Dāmodara: So when we'll come back from Govardhana?</p>
<p>Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Tomorrow night.</p>
<p>Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So after circumambulating Govardhana, we will return to Vṛndāvana or stay out?</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: What do you think?</p>
<p>Pañca-draviḍa: Maybe we could stay overnight.</p>
<p>Lokanātha: When we are there, out, we'll decide.</p>
<p>Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: He can't come back tomorrow night.</p>
<p>Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's helpful for the devotees to know, just so they can bring something to wrap around when it gets to be nighttime. It's not the middle of the summer, you know. It is...</p>
<p>Lokanātha: We have two, three vehicles here.</p>
<p>Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I'm saying it's something that should be considered now, and not when we get there. You said when we get there we'll see.</p>
<p>Svarūpa Dāmodara: We should make all the plans complete.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: That you consider.</p>
<p>Bhavānanda: We should go with plans for staying overnight.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Why you are asking me?</p>
<p>Lokanātha: I think we'll have to stay there.</p>
<p>Haṁsadūta: Yeah, definitely.</p>
<p>Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We definitely have to stay there.</p>
<p>Haṁsadūta: Six hours to go, three hours to go, that's nine. It's not possible to come back. So one night, spending one night in Govardhana.</p>
<p>Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: The devotees are crashing after two hours.</p>
<p>Lokanātha: The devotees should be prepared to stay overnight there. Under the trees. (laughter)</p>
<p>Haṁsadūta: We're supposed to be gosvāmīs. We have to stay under a tree. Different tree every night.</p>
<p>Lokanātha: When we were traveling from Vṛndāvana to Māyāpur we stayed many times. Outside we'd live under the tree. It's nice.</p>
<p>Bhakti-caru: Yes, but if just one window is open at night, Prabhupāda starts feeling cold in spite of the blanket.</p>
<p>Lokanātha: You are making mundane.</p>
<p>Svarūpa Dāmodara: It will be very cold in the early morning hours.</p>
<p>Haṁsadūta: We'll bring the van, and Prabhupāda can stay in the van overnight, or we'll find some place.</p>
<p>Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: All the āśramas will be overcrowded.</p>
<p>Pañca-draviḍa: We can sleep around the van. Prabhupāda is like a desire tree. He satisfies everybody.</p>
<p>Lokanātha: That cart could be turned into house. Have bamboo sticks, cover it with...</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: So begin to plan.</p>
<p>Svarūpa Dāmodara: I think Lokanātha Swami should make the route, completely planned out, and the place also where we're going to picnic so that everything has to be arranged well ahead of time.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: So do it.</p>
<p>Pañca-draviḍa: Yes, we'll prepare the cart tonight, Śrīla Prabhupāda.</p>
<p>Lokanātha: When we started the bullock cart you said, "Go to the heart of the village," and we said, "What is this heart?" You said, "Wherever there is well, water, we should camp. We should stay." That is where we could remain clean.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: That you have experience. I have no experience.</p>
<p>Lokanātha: Maybe you sent me to experience this bullock cart program so that you could...</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Yes.</p>
<p>Lokanātha: ...in future go on bullock cart.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: For me it is experiment.</p>
<p>Svarūpa Dāmodara: We should also request kavirāja to come along?</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Invite him.</p>
<p>Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: He can come in the van.</p>
<p>Pañca-draviḍa: Then it is all decided. You want to take some rest, Śrīla Prabhupāda?</p>
<p>Haṁsadūta: Can we have some kīrtana, Prabhupāda? (kīrtana)</p>
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