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| <div id="compilation"> | | <div id="compilation"> |
| <div id="facts"> | | <div id="facts"> |
| {{terms|"in the Kali-yuga salvation is very easier. That is the version of Srimad-Bhagavatam also, but that process is this kirtana, not LSD"}} | | {{terms|"in the Kali-yuga salvation is very easier. That is the version of ''Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam'' also. But that process is this ''kīrtana'', not LSD"}} |
| {{notes|}} | | {{notes|}} |
| {{compiler|Visnu Murti}} | | {{compiler|Visnu Murti}} |
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| [[Category:Kali-yuga]] | | [[Category:Kali-yuga]] |
| [[Category:Salvation]] | | [[Category:Salvation]] |
| [[Category:Very Easily]] | | [[Category:Very Easy]] |
| | [[Category:Easier]] |
| [[Category:That Is The Way]] | | [[Category:That Is The Way]] |
| [[Category:Version]] | | [[Category:Version]] |
| [[Category:Srimad-Bhagavatam (Bhagavata Purana)]] | | [[Category:Srimad-Bhagavatam (Bhagavata Purana)]] |
| [[Category:Process]] | | [[Category:Srimad-Bhagavatam and Vedanta-sutra]] |
| | [[Category:This is the Process]] |
| [[Category:Kirtana]] | | [[Category:Kirtana]] |
| | [[Category:But Not]] |
| [[Category:LSD]] | | [[Category:LSD]] |
| | [[Category:Srimad-Bhagavatam and Kali-yuga]] |
| | [[Category:God and Kali-yuga] |
| | [[Category:Prabhupada Speaks - Room Conversations, 1966 - 1977]] |
| | [[Category:Prabhupada Speaks - Room Conversations, 1969]] |
| | [[Category:Prabhupada Speaks - in USA, Columbus]] |
| | [[Category:Pages Needing Audio - SOMNATH]] |
| </div> | | </div> |
| <div id="Conversations_and_Morning_Walks" class="section" sec_index="5" parent="compilation" text="Conversations and Morning Walks"><h2>Conversations and Morning Walks</h2> | | <div id="Conversations_and_Morning_Walks" class="section" sec_index="5" parent="compilation" text="Conversations and Morning Walks"><h2>Conversations and Morning Walks</h2> |
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| <div class="heading">That is very nice statement that in the Kali-yuga salvation is very easier. That is the version of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam also, but that process is this kīrtana, not LSD. | | <div class="heading">That is very nice statement that in the Kali-yuga salvation is very easier. That is the version of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam also, but that process is this kīrtana, not LSD. |
| </div> | | </div> |
| <span class="link">[[Vanisource:Room Conversation with Allen Ginsberg -- May 11, 1969, Columbus, Ohio|Room Conversation with Allen Ginsberg -- May 11, 1969, Columbus, Ohio]]: </span><div class="text"><p style="display: inline;">Allen Ginsberg: Bite your food. I have that question I wanted to asked. Are you tired?</p> | | |
| <p>Prabhupāda: No, no. I can talk with you whole night. (laughter)</p>
| | |
| <p>Allen Ginsberg: So he said that his teacher in India told him that LSD was a Christ of the Kali-yuga for Westerners.</p>
| | <mp3player>https://vanipedia.s3.amazonaws.com/clip/690511R1-COLUMBUS_clip01.mp3</mp3player> |
| <p>Prabhupāda: Christ?</p>
| | <span class="link">[[Vanisource:Room Conversation with Allen Ginsberg -- May 11, 1969, Columbus, Ohio|Room Conversation with Allen Ginsberg -- May 11, 1969, Columbus, Ohio]]: </span><div class="text"><p style="display: inline;"> |
| <p>Allen Ginsberg: of the Kali-yuga for Westerners in that, as the Kali-yuga got more intense, as attachment got thicker and thicker, that also salvation would have to be easier and easier, and that...</p>
| | Allen Ginsberg: So, as the Kali-yuga became more intense and as attachment became deeper and more confusing . . . |
| <p>Prabhupāda: (aside:) (Bengali)</p>
| | |
| <p>Allen Ginsberg: Namaste. (to Indian lady)</p>
| | Prabhupāda: Attachment for? |
| <p>Prabhupāda: She is a Bengali lady recently come from London.</p>
| | |
| <p>Allen Ginsberg: Ahh!</p>
| | Allen Ginsberg: . . . that salvation would also have to become easier and easier in the Kali-yuga. |
| <p>Prabhupāda: Lekha. (Bengali)</p>
| | |
| <p>Indian Lady: (Bengali)</p>
| | Prabhupāda: That is very nice statement that in the Kali-yuga salvation is very easier. That is the version of ''Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam'' also. But that process is this ''kīrtana'', not LSD. |
| <p>Prabhupāda: (Bengali)</p>
| | |
| <p>Allen Ginsberg: So, as the Kali-yuga became more intense and as attachment became deeper and more confusing...</p>
| | Allen Ginsberg: Well, it was . . . the reasoning there was that for those who would only accept salvation in purely material form, in chemical form finally, and completely material form . . . |
| <p>Prabhupāda: Attachment for?</p>
| | |
| <p>Allen Ginsberg: ...that salvation would also have to become easier and easier in the Kali-yuga.</p>
| | Prabhupāda: Hmm. So where is the salvation when there is . . . |
| <p>Prabhupāda: That is very nice statement that in the Kali-yuga salvation is very easier. That is the version of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam also, but that process is this kīrtana, not LSD.</p>
| | |
| <p>Allen Ginsberg: Well, it was... The reasoning there, was that for those who would only accept salvation in purely material form, in chemical form finally, and completely material form...</p>
| | Allen Ginsberg: . . . that Kṛṣṇa had the humor to emerge as a pill. |
| <p>Prabhupāda: Hmm. So where is the salvation when there is...</p>
| | |
| <p>Allen Ginsberg: ...that Kṛṣṇa had the humor to emerge as a pill.</p>
| | Prabhupāda: No, the thing is that when it is material form . . . |
| <p>Prabhupāda: No, the thing is that any of these material forms...</p>
| | |
| <p>Allen Ginsberg: Yes?</p>
| | Allen Ginsberg: Yes? |
| <p>Prabhupāda: ...then where it is salvation? It is illusion.</p>
| | |
| <p>Allen Ginsberg: Well the subjective effect is to cut...</p>
| | Prabhupāda: . . . then where it is salvation? It is illusion. |
| <p>Prabhupāda: No.</p>
| | |
| <p>Allen Ginsberg: ...attachment during the...</p>
| | Allen Ginsberg: Well, the subjective effect is to cut . . . |
| <p>Prabhupāda: Well, if you have got attachments for something material, then where is the cut-off attachment. LSD is a material chemical.</p>
| | |
| <p>Allen Ginsberg: Yeah.</p>
| | Prabhupāda: No. |
| <p>Prabhupāda: So if you have to take shelter of LSD then you take, I mean to say, help from the matters, so that is... How you can... How you are free from matter?</p>
| | |
| <p>Allen Ginsberg: Well, the subjective experience is, while in the state of intoxication of LSD, also realizing that LSD is a material pill, and that it does not really matter.</p>
| | Allen Ginsberg: . . . attachment during the . . . |
| <p>Prabhupāda: So that is risky. That is risky.</p>
| | |
| <p>Allen Ginsberg: Yeah. Now so, if LSD is a material attachment, which it is I think, then is not the sound, śabda, also a material attachment?</p>
| | Prabhupāda: Well, if you have got attachments for something material, then where is the cut-off of attachment? LSD is a material chemical. |
| <p>Prabhupāda: No, śabda is spiritual. Originally just like in Bible there is, "Let there be creation." This sound, this spiritual sound. Creation. Creation was not there. The sound produced the creation. Therefore, sound is originally spiritual and through the sound; sound—from sound, sky develops; from sky, air develop; from air, fire develop; fire, water develop; from water, land develop.</p>
| | |
| <p>Allen Ginsberg: Sound is the first element of creation?</p>
| | Allen Ginsberg: Yeah. |
| <p>Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.</p>
| | |
| <p>Allen Ginsberg: What was the first sound, traditionally?</p>
| | Prabhupāda: So if you have to take shelter of LSD, then you take, I mean to say, help from the matters. So that is . . . how you can . . . how you are free from matter? |
| <p>Prabhupāda: Vedic states, Oṁ. So at least we can understand from your Bible, that God said, "Let there be creation." So this is sound, and there is creation. God and His sound is non-different, absolute. I say, "Mr. Ginsberg," this sound and I, a little difference, but God is non-different from His energy, nitya... How it is called? Śakti śaktimator abhedhaḥ. Śakti, energy and śakti-mat, the energetic. They are non-different. Just like fire and heat, they are non-different, but heat is not fire. You can not differentiate heat from fire, or fire from heat. But fire is not heat.</p>
| | |
| </div>
| | Allen Ginsberg: Well, the subjective experience is, while in the state of intoxication of LSD, also realizing that LSD is a material pill, and that it does not really matter . . . |
| </div>
| | |
| </div>
| | Prabhupāda: So that is risky. That is risky. |
| | |
| | Allen Ginsberg: Yeah. Now so, if LSD is a material attachment, which it is, I think, then is not the sound, ''śabda'', also a material attachment? |
| | |
| | Prabhupāda: No, ''śabda'' is spiritual. Originally, just like in Bible there is "Let there be creation," this sound, this spiritual sound. Creation. Creation was not there. The sound produced the creation. Therefore, sound is originally spiritual, and through the sound . . . sound—from sound, sky develops; from sky, air develop; from air, fire develop; fire, water develop; from water, land develop. |
| | |
| | Allen Ginsberg: Sound is the first element of creation? |
| | |
| | Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. |
| | |
| | Allen Ginsberg: What was the first sound, traditionally? |
| | |
| | Prabhupāda: Vedic states ''oṁ''. Yes. So at least we can understand, from your Bible, that God said: "Let there be creation." So this is sound, and there is creation. God and His sound is nondifferent, absolute. I say "Mr. Ginsberg," this sound and I, a little difference. But God is nondifferent from His energy. |
| | |
| | ''Nitya'' . . . what is called? ''Śakti śaktimator abhedhaḥ''. ''Śakti'', energy, and ''śakti-mat'', the energetic, they are nondifferent. Just like fire and heat, they are nondifferent, but heat is not fire. You cannot differentiate heat from fire or fire from heat. But fire is not heat. |
