Prabhupāda: Jñāna, real jñāna, is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Find out. Etaj jñānam, tad ajñānaṁ yad anyathā (BG 13.12). What is jñāna, that is stated. But where is jñāna? Everyone is ajñāna. General people, they're karmīs and, little more, jñānīs. But jñānī . . . jñāna is not complete unless he knows the Supreme Lord.
Yogi Amrit Desai: Unless he has realized.
Prabhupāda: Not realized, no. Just like we are talking personally. This is . . .
Jagadīśa: Amānitvam adambhitvam ahiṁsā kṣāntir ārjavam, ācāryopāsanaṁ śaucam . . . (BG 13.8).
Prabhupāda: Yes. So this is ācāryopāsanam. That is required. But these yogīs, jñānīs, karmīs, they have no ācārya. They are self-made. Just like Dr. Russell. He's self-made. So what he will do? Now he's caught up. He's in the trap.
Yogi Amrit Desai: Yes. He is.
Prabhupāda: He's not a scientific man, but he presented himself as very scientific, so now he's caught up.
Yogi Amrit Desai: Right. (to devotee) You found it right away.
Jagadīśa: There's an index.
Prabhupāda: Hmm. Go on.
Jagadīśa: Sthairyam ātma-vinigrahaḥ, indriyārtheṣu vairāgyam anahaṅkāra eva ca . . . (BG 13.8-9)
Prabhupāda: Indriyārtheṣu vairāgyam: not to indulge in sense gratification. Not to dress himself as a sādhu, as a svāmī.
Yogi Amrit Desai: Not external.
Prabhupāda: He's servant of his senses, and he has become a svāmī. Just see—how cheating.
Yogi Amrit Desai: That's the real meaning.
Prabhupāda: Svāmī means who is the controller of the senses.
Yogi Amrit Desai: Master of the senses.
Prabhupāda: Senses. So instead of svāmī he is servant of his senses, and he is preaching as svāmī. These svāmīs go to the foreign countries. Indriyārtheṣu vairāgyam.