Prabhupāda: Ahaṅkāra. "Ah, what is Kṛṣṇa consciousness? I can do without."
Dr. Patel: Once a man is free of ahaṅkāra, then he is soul.
Prabhupāda: No, ahaṅkāra there will be, but ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā, thinking falsely something, that, "I am this body." Therefore he's vimūḍha. These are animal. Ahaṅkāra is there, "I am Brahman, spirit soul." But he is thinking, "I am Indian," "I am American," "I am dog," "I am cat." Vimūḍhātmā. And this first principle of knowledge they cannot understand. Mūḍha. Mūḍho 'yaṁ nābhijānāti mām eka param avyayam (BG 7.25).
Dr. Patel: That is the . . . (indistinct) . . . brahmacārī has written (sanskrit) (break)
Prabhupāda: Man-manā. That is the only way.
Dr. Patel: That is ananya-bhakti.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Dr. Patel: Parā-bhakti.
Prabhupāda: Man-manā bhava mad-bhaktaḥ (BG 9.34): "To become My devotee means you shall think of Me twenty-four hours," man-manā. Then you become a bhakta. Not that meditation—I meditate fifteen minutes, and twenty-four hours thinking of something else.
Dr. Patel: Then you never, I mean, that even for, it is just like you, even for a moment you slip down, just like a . . . (indistinct) . . . it should be perpetual conscious within yourself . . . (indistinct)