So in our younger days, the Professor, Dr. W.S. Urquhart. So I heard his lecture, that he did not believe in the karmas. He said that "If I am suffering or enjoying for my last karma, who is the witness? Because some witness must be there that I have done this." But at that time we were not very expert. But this Hṛṣīkeśa is the witness, anumantā upadraṣṭā. Upadraṣṭā. He is simply seeing. So the Christians, they have no Paramātmā idea. Sometimes they say holy ghost. Means a clear idea. But this Hṛṣīkeśa is clear idea. Hṛṣīkeśa. Hṛṣīka-īśa.